Innacurate 109 stall behaviour on COD - Add this to bugtracker, please!

Ernst · #1 05-18-2012, 06:05 AM

Acctualy the 109 stall in CloD after patch are very agressive and she spins are very easy. For sake of historical accuracy

the 109 should have a gentle stall and not spinning easily! Ok, do you want evidence?

Please devs, correct it. Can someone add it to bugtracker. After I will add more data!

CaptainDoggles · #2 05-18-2012, 06:27 AM

This is true. The leading-edge slats should give the 109 a very benign spin tendency.

gimpy117 · #3 05-18-2012, 09:18 AM

yeah don't they don't seem to actually work. It's funny. the spitfire doesn't really stall at all, yet every other plane seems so stall when put into a hard turn. It makes me wonder...especially with Me-109 non working slats, Or for that matter how you can bounce a Spitfire with a 5,000+ Ft. energy advantage and he can just do a loop on the deck and automatically be above you.

Energy retention issues anyone? Either the Spit is too good, or all the others are porked IMO

ATAG_Snapper · #4 05-18-2012, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimpy117

yeah don't they don't seem to actually work. It's funny. the spitfire doesn't really stall at all, yet every other plane seems so stall when put into a hard turn. It makes me wonder...especially with Me-109 non working slats, Or for that matter how you can bounce a Spitfire with a 5,000+ Ft. energy advantage and he can just do a loop on the deck and automatically be above you.

Energy retention issues anyone? Either the Spit is too good, or all the others are porked IMO

I have it on good authority that Spitfires are "clown wagons"!!!

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=31252

SEE · #5 05-18-2012, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimpy117

yeah don't they don't seem to actually work. It's funny. the spitfire doesn't really stall at all, yet every other plane seems so stall when put into a hard turn. It makes me wonder...especially with Me-109 non working slats, Or for that matter how you can bounce a Spitfire with a 5,000+ Ft. energy advantage and he can just do a loop on the deck and automatically be above you.

So why are you complaining (in another post) about being 109s vulching you in the Spit? Let me guess, the Spit is only a 'clown wagon' when your in a 109 and your ass has been shredded!

bw_wolverine · #6 05-18-2012, 04:14 PM

I dunno, nothing in that document really suggests a SERIOUS issue with the FM. I think most of these 'unrealistic stalls' are happening in combat when the 109 is attempting to turn and shoot at the enemy.

How slow are you when these stalls occur? Are you still trying to pull up, losing even more speed? Is the enemy aircraft doing something that you aren't which leads you to believe you're under different circumstances?

The Hurricane with a bit of flaps can fly and turn quite slowly. Those are the only times I've had a 109 stall into a spin behind me. This is at nearly 80mph. I don't think the slats are going to save you at 80mph in a turn.

I could be wrong. Maybe some tests with fraps recordings are in order.

bw_wolverine · #7 05-18-2012, 04:16 PM

Incidentally, I notice at the bottom of that document mention of the Spitfire and Hurricane keeping up with the 109s in dives? Add that to the bugs

SG1_Lud · #8 05-18-2012, 04:27 PM

@Ernst, bug created #310

S!

gimpy117 · #9 05-18-2012, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEE

So why are you complaining (in another post) about being 109s vulching you in the Spit? Let me guess, the Spit is only a 'clown wagon' when your in a 109 and your ass has been shredded!

didn't say that. that had nothing to do with FM's.

I will add that all I had to to was pull 2 hard turns or so and he fell out of the sky. I had no issue...the second time I was landing and 50 feet off the ground no ammo to fight back.

Vulching Isn't about FM's it's about unfair advantages and if it's allowed or not....FM's are well about combat. But I guess lets try to generalize etc. I know as much as you that an ME-109 is very dangerous with lead pulled on you...and when you're in a low E state taking off or landing it's the perfect time. The fact that I could just do a few sharp turns and evade him with little to no actual maneuvers kinda adds do the mystery

Ernst · #10 05-18-2012, 10:31 PM

More from http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/

Me 109 E:
"The airplane was equipped with a 60 foot trailing static head and a swiveling pitot head. Although, as may be imagined, operation of a trailing static from a single-seater with a rather cramped cockpit is a difficult job, the pilot brought back the following results:
Lowering the ailerons and flaps thus increases CL max of 0.5. This is roughly the value which would be expected from the installation. Behaviour at the stall. The airplane was put through the full official tests. The results may be summarized by saying that the stalling behaviour, flaps up and down, is excellent. Both rudder and ailerons are effective right down to the stall, which is very gentle, the wing only falling about 10 degrees and the nose falling with it. There is no tendency to spin. With flaps up the ailerons snatch while the slats are opening, and there is a buffeting on the ailerons as the stall is approached.. Withs flaps down there is no aileron snatch as the slats open, and no pre-stall aileron buffeting. There is no warning of the stall, flaps down. From the safety viewpoint this is the sold adverse stalling feature; it is largely off-set by the innocuous behaviour at the stall and by the very high degree of fore and aft stability on the approach glide.
It is important to bear in mind that minimum radii of turn are obtained by going as near to the stall as possible. In this respect the Bf.109E scores by its excellent control near the stall and innocuous behaviour at the stall, giving the pilot confidence to get the last ounce out of his airplanes turning performance."
- RAF Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) Farnborough handling trials,Bf.109E Wn: 1304. M.B. Morgan and R. Smelt of the RAE, 1944.

Me 109 E-4:
"I was amazed at how docile the aircraft was and how difficult it was to depart, particularly from manoeuvre - in a level turn there was lots of warning from a wide buffet margin and the aircraft would not depart unless it was out of balance. Once departted the aircraft was recovered easily by centralizing the controls."
- Charlie Brown, RAF Flying Instructor, test flight of restored Me 109 E-4 WN 3579. Source: Warbirds Journal issue 50.

Me 109 G:
"- How the Messerschmitt reacted to hard pull? Did she stall?
There is the general opinion that you could not make her stall by pulling but she could 'slip'."
- Kyösti Karhila, Finnish fighter ace. 32 victories. Source: Interview by Finnish Virtual Pilots Association.

I would like to comment the following: "It is important to bear in mind that minimum radii of turn are obtained by going as near to the stall as possible. In this respect the Bf.109E scores by its excellent control near the stall and innocuous behaviour at the stall, giving the pilot confidence to get the last ounce out of his airplanes turning performance."

Acctualy in CloD we can not feel this confidence.