BoBII discussion thread

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by IamNotDavid

That depends on my other options. If I have other options I would expect it to be ready at release. If I don't have other options then I'm going to have no choice but to wait (and spend every day trolling their message board).

Just thought I should add that there are options. BoB2 has better AI, better comms, and a much better campaign system and single missions which are leaps and bounds over CloD. So with this in mind, you advocate that this should have all been available at release? Interesting.

Please could this post not be removed, as I feel it is useful for anyone who has never played BoB2. In terms of gameplay, it's the best Battle of Britain game on the market at the moment.

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Just thought I should add that there are options. BoB2 has better AI, better comms, and a much better campaign system and single missions which are leaps and bounds over CloD. So with this in mind, you advocate that this should have all been available at release? Interesting.

Please could this post not be removed, as I feel it is useful for anyone who has never played BoB2. In terms of gameplay, it's the best Battle of Britain game on the market at the moment.

Why aren't the complainers busy playing BoB2 instead of posting here? I think WoP was a waste of my money, but I don't spend all my time complaining on their message board. In fact, I've never been on their message board.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Just thought I should add that there are options. BoB2 has better AI, better comms, and a much better campaign system and single missions which are leaps and bounds over CloD. So with this in mind, you advocate that this should have all been available at release? Interesting.

Please could this post not be removed, as I feel it is useful for anyone who has never played BoB2. In terms of gameplay, it's the best Battle of Britain game on the market at the moment.

I used to play it for a while 10 years ago, and then tried all of the the successive reincarnations, and mods, but the lack of multiplay and the old graphics had me quit it long time ago in favor of Il2. The best thing I remember were the large formations of bomber and escort fighters.
Anyway I don't understand the purpose of speaking about BoB II in this thread.

Cheers,
Ins.

[addman]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Just thought I should add that there are options. BoB2 has better AI, better comms, and a much better campaign system and single missions which are leaps and bounds over CloD. So with this in mind, you advocate that this should have all been available at release? Interesting.

Please could this post not be removed, as I feel it is useful for anyone who has never played BoB2. In terms of gameplay, it's the best Battle of Britain game on the market at the moment.

For me it's the feel of flight that draws -and has always drawn- me to the il-2 series. After I played the very first IL-2 demo, European Air War and Jane's WWII Fighters became instantly obsolete. I couldn't go back to them even though I loved EAW's campaigns and enjoyed the FMB of WWII Fighters very much. I now face the same "problem" with IL-2 CloD, the immersion of flying over the channel on a misty summer morning is unbeatable. The feel of flight, the gorgeous cockpits, the great lightning, the new sounds. It's one fantastic combat sim BUT it sorely lacks in content and features which unfortunately has made me stop caring about it. I have no interest at all in flying it at the moment and the sad thing is going back to old IL-2 is impossible when you know how superior CloD is in many ways, I'm stuck in between the old and the new, it's a horrible thing and it makes me wish I hadn't bought CloD at all and at the same time I feel the total opposite. It's a weird situation.

On a brighter note, I'm now really stoked about BoM and I hope it will rekindle my interest in the series and hook me just as IL-2 did 10 years ago!

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by Insuber

I used to play it for a while 10 years ago, and then tried all of the the successive reincarnations, and mods, but the lack of multiplay and the old graphics had me quit it long time ago in favor of Il2. The best thing I remember were the large formations of bomber and escort fighters.
Anyway I don't understand the purpose of speaking about BoB II in this thread.

Cheers,
Ins.

The purpose is that IAmNotDavid said that: 'If I have other options I would expect it to be ready at release'. He was suggesting that if there was anything comparable to CloD, then the features Furbs et al previously mentioned would need to have been included in the release. The truth is they are available, as I demonstrated, which makes his jab at Furbs slightly ironic.

Originally Posted by philip.ed

The purpose is that IAmNotDavid said that: 'If I have other options I would expect it to be ready at release'. He was suggesting that if there was anything comparable to CloD, then the features Furbs et al previously mentioned would need to have been included in the release. The truth is they are available, as I demonstrated, which makes his jab at Furbs slightly ironic.

To which I responded, if another option is available you should be playing that game instead of constantly complaining about this one.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Just thought I should add that there are options. BoB2 has better AI, better comms, and a much better campaign system and single missions which are leaps and bounds over CloD. So with this in mind, you advocate that this should have all been available at release? Interesting.

Please could this post not be removed, as I feel it is useful for anyone who has never played BoB2. In terms of gameplay, it's the best Battle of Britain game on the market at the moment.

I feel it is important too.. but you have to consider both sides of the coin to be fair

BoB II like BoB I is not what I and many others would consider a bench mark flight sim..

In 2005 Shockwave took Rowan's 2001 BoB I code and basically upgraded the graphics engine and REMOVED what little online play it had! But don't take my word for it! i.e.

eurogamer Review of BoB II
'Potentially excellent' is not a phrase we thought we'd be using in this review; it's not a phrase we hoped we'd be using in this review. Because Wings of Victory is basically a beautified re-release of a much-loved five-year-old air combat classic (Rowan's Battle of Britain) excellence should really have come as standard. Instead Shockwave, in the process of adding attractive new aircraft models, cockpits, scenery and particle effects appear to have introduced a swarm of new bugs too.

If these bugs were small - a misaligned texture here, a briefing typo there - then we'd happily forgive and forget. Sadly they are actually rather large - lock-ups, crashes, mysteriously low frame-rates

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A sky full of droning Dorniers is a truly awesome sight and something you won't have seen the like of in other sims. Unfortunately it also seems to be a cue for some of those crashes and frame-rate slumps we mentioned earlier.

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Watching frame-rates nosedive or seeing your icon-strewn desktop pop-up as you plunge, guns blazing into a swarm of Luftwaffe bombers doesn't do a whole lot for immersion

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In a debatable step Shockwave has chosen to remove the unreliable multiplayer mode that featured in the original title rather than repair it

And

GAME HUB Review of BoB II
In 2005 Shockwave Productions, having obtained the rights to the BOB code, released BOB II, Wings of Victory.

Like a new pilot taking off without setting his prop pitch though, it stalled on take-off. Arguably, it took four patches and nearly a year before it was stable and playable for the majority of gamers, due to similar stability issues which had plagued the original release.

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There is no online mode, which many players regard as a core element of any modern combat game. And there is virtually no way for users to create and share their own missions

Those are just some of the reasons why I and many others don't consder BoB I or BoB II a bench mark flight sim

As for the offline play and AI..

All I can say is IT BETTER BE GOOD! in light of the fact that there is NO ONLINE play!

It's too bad Shockwave had this late 1990s mentality in 2005. Granted in the 90s online was in it infancy (read exception to the rule unless a pay-to-play sim) but that mind set had long gone the way of the dinosaur by 2005! Where the emphases switched from AI and offline campaigns to smooth online multiplayer coops and campaigns.

I know I know I know..

You want both!

And in a perfect world where nobody grows old, money grows on trees, people work for free and the market has no influence on the products you produce.. we could have both.. but here in the real world there is only so much time and money and the market demands online play over offline campaigns. Which explains why CoD and so many other flight sims have pushed offline play to the back burner.

[kendo65]

Come on Aces, your blanket approach to dousing even the most moderate and constructive criticism of the game is really tiring. You seem to have a stone-wall, not-an-inch mentality regarding acknowledging ANY aspects of CoD that could be improved. This is despite the devs themselves making an appeal for advice on improving the AI.

Philip and others have made good points about specific features (AI, campaign) in BOB 2 that in their opinion could be useful for CoD's future development. And instead of acknowledging that you muddy the water again by finding other aspects of BOB 2 to criticise.

I don't see how you can believe you are advancing the future of CoD or BoM by having such a closed minded attitude.

Just to be clear - no-one is saying that BOB 2 is better in every aspect or more advanced than CoD, or that they necessarily prefer playing it in 2012 so all those criticisms are attacking the wrong issue. The point is that in some specific aspects it is very good. And those specific areas are ones that many people, including apparently the devs, feel that CoD needs to be improved.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by kendo65

Come on Aces, your blanket approach to dousing even the most moderate and constructive criticism of the game is really tiring.

Sorry if my 'glass half full' approach is in conflict with you and yours 'glass half empty' approach

But as I pointed out, you have to look at both sides of the coin in every case to be fair

For example I think this line is very telling..

GAME HUB Review of BoB II it took four patches and nearly a year before it was stable and playable for the majority of gamers, due to similar stability issues which had plagued the original release.

That is in reference to the BoB II sim that some would have us belive is the bench mark of BoB sims.. Does that description sound familiar to you in anyway? Maybe not to you and yours, but I think others who may be on the fence will read that and realize that CoD has not been out for a year yet and that maybe they will come down off the fence onto the 'glass half full' side as aposed to your side

Again, sorry if that 'approach' gets in the way of your 'approach'

[Trumper]

Just a factual point as i personally have both sims on my h/d and each has it's good and bad points.
There is a patch being worked on in BoB 11 and a re write of the campaigns in progress.
BoB11 is an old engine and worked on by volunteers for nothing so really can't be compared to a modern brand new program with a professional team of full time developers.
I don't see why BoB 11 is being dragged into this,having both is a win/win situation.