109 e3b against spitfire II

[David198502]

hey guys!i was just playing on a server where most of the guys flew the spit II.
normally i had no problem to fight against spits online.but it seems that i havent faced the spit II online yet.im pretty clueless how to fight this oponent.
its seems to climb faster and turns faster and tighter anyway.the only manouver that worked was to dive, but ending up at low altitude is a bad situation.so i tried to gain some altitude, but as soon i climbed,the spits were back on my near six.is there a way to be the hunter and not the bait online with the 109e3b against the spitII or do you have to hunt in hordes??
im mean i know the importance of altitude adavantage, but on the small dogfight maps, i couldnt gain it before i was already chased.

[VO101_Tom]

U cant. SpitII simply better. It was in RL too (The messer can climb higher, but its dont work in game now). E3 -in this configuration- is spanish civil war era (early '39 - LW get the first planes there), Spit II the BOB most advanced RAF type (Aug. '40). Untill LW cant get E-4, E-7, .../N planes, the SpitII banned in most (historical) servers.

Fly with E-3. Difference with E-3/B only the bomb rack, it makes the plane slower.

edit. Ahh, and one more thing The E-3, E-3/B manual Prop pitch is much slower, than should be, big disadvantage anyway with this. We hope, it will be fixed in next patch.

[Danelov]

"its seems to climb faster and turns faster and tighter anyway.the only manouver that worked was to dive"

That´s quite accurate if we want speak always about realism. And that must be also, with very little difference, the same for the Mk.I. Always in theme realism, the E-1 MG only armed must also be present. A good number of this version were still operative by Aug 1940.

[ZaltysZ]

Get a wingman. It is the best thing you can do against Spit2

[ICDP]

Originally Posted by VO101_Tom

U cant. SpitII simply better. It was in RL too (The messer can climb higher, but its dont work in game now). E3 -in this configuration- is spanish civil war era (early '39 - LW get the first planes there), Spit II the BOB most advanced RAF type (Aug. '40). Untill LW cant get E-4, E-7, .../N planes, the SpitII banned in most (historical) servers.

Fly with E-3. Difference with E-3/B only the bomb rack, it makes the plane slower.

edit. Ahh, and one more thing The E-3, E-3/B manual Prop pitch is much slower, than should be, big disadvantage anyway with this. We hope, it will be fixed in next patch.

The 109E3 was not a Spanish civil war variant, the 109B was. Also the just like the Mk I Hurricane and Mk I Spitifres, the 109E went through various changes from the early 1939 variant at the start of the war to the versions that saw action in August 1940 over Britain.

More powerfull engines were introduced during the production run which kept the 109E competitive with even the Mk II Spitfire. What the problem is with Cliffs of Dover is that the Spitfire Mk IIa matches the performance of the real +12lbs boost Mk II while the 109E comes nowhere near its historical 1939 figures let alone its 1940 figures.

The Hurricane Mk I Rotol is also getting speeds that match a real +6lbs boost version instead of +12lbs boost, so it is also too slow for a BoB era Hurricane. The Spitfire Mk I, Mk Ia and Hurricane DH are massively underperforming and don't get close to real figures for +6lbs versions let alone +12lbs boost versions. Then we have the Bf110 which matches the performance of a DB601-A variant, the problem is that around 50% of the Bf110s in the battle had DB601-N engines which ran on 100 octane fuel giving them a large performance boost.

What we have are some woefully underperforming fighters that don't match any published figures and seem to use generally made up performance based on nothing in particular.

Spitfire Mk Ia (Rotol)
Spitfire Mk I (DH)
Bf109E3
Fiat G.50
Hurricane Mk I (DH)

We have a total lack of any +12lbs boost Spitfire Mk Is or Hurricane Mk Is that would have been the most common variants at front line squadrons. We also have a total lack of the DB601-N equipped Bf110.

Online servers have a serious issue. Allow the Spitfire Mk IIa, which is the ONLY RAF aircraft with close to real life performance. The problem being that it totally dominates the woefully underperforming 109E and Fiat G.50s. Or ban the Spitfire Mk IIa and watch the domination swing way in fovour for the 109E because the Spitfire and Hurricane Mk Is have performance that is even further from reality than that of the CoD 109E.

A lot of work is required on the majority of FMs and aircraft performance.

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by ICDP

The 109E3 was not a Spanish civil war variant, the 109B was.

Im totally agree, FM necessary to fix, on both sides.

E-3 was not the main fighter, but in spanish civil war, "early in the year (1939) J/88 had recieved 40 new cannon-armed Bf 109 E fighters, and the outdated early marks were passed to Gruppo 5-G-5. On 5 March Mölders's replacement as leader of 3 Staffel." (Osprey Airwar3 - Christopher Shores: Spanish Civil War Air Forces, page 42)"

In this configuration: MG-FF cannon, non automatic cooling system, non automatic Prop pitch system, basic DB601 engine, this is spanish civ war variation. Couple of these aircrafts using in BOB (much less than E-1, E-4, i dont know, why chosen this airplane), but this does not make changes in it, that this machine of what date, and that the LW was much more advanced type under the BOB period.

Im totally understand the virtual RAF pilots situation, 100 octane fuel, +12lbs boost is missing, but LW missing whole series, not just components Untill LW cant get "BOB era" planes, the (historical) mission makers have no other opportunity, have to create Battle of France maps.

[Danelov]

ICDP: A short number of E-1 and maybe some experimental E-3 were used by the Legion Condor in the last stages of the war. The I-16 sometimes was more of a match for the early 109 versions.

[ICDP]

Originally Posted by Danelov

ICDP: A short number of E-1 and maybe some experimental E-3 were used by the Legion Condor in the last stages of the war. The I-16 sometimes was more of a match for the early 109 versions.

I am aware of this, I was responding to VO101_Tom's post on the 109E3 in the Spanish Civil war. Upon re-reading his post I now realise that he meant the current CoD 109E3 is actually performing closer to the very early 109E3 as it was configured in early 1939 (i.e. pre-war). If this was his point then I agree, though the 109E and early Mk I Spitfires and Hurricanes are actually performing slower than they should even for this period.

[Grand_Armee]

Originally Posted by Danelov

That´s quite accurate if we want speak always about realism. And that must be also, with very little difference, the same for the Mk.I. Always in theme realism, the E-1 MG only armed must also be present. A good number of this version were still operative by Aug 1940.

Honestly, dude. Who do you think is gonna fly it online? Who's gonna make a mission guaranteed to make half the flyers say: "See ya later!" Might as well make a mission where red has only the Tiger Moth to fly.

[ZaltysZ]

Originally Posted by Grand_Armee

Honestly, dude. Who do you think is gonna fly it online?

Why not? Especially when MGs with incendiary ammo are so effective in CoD.