Current in game I-16 types

[stugumby]

Just curious as to if the current in game type 24 is a hybrid for spb use or should it be armed with 4mg instead of 2 20mm cannon and 2 mg, as well as rockets? And rockets ever on the type 18? Or which source is considered the best source?

[dimlee]

Cannons were on types 12, 17,27,28 as I remember. Type 24 was armed with 4 MGs (ShKAS), indeed.
I recall good book by Mikhail Maslov, but it is probably just in Russian...

[Pursuivant]

There are both Type 24 and Type 24 (SPB) variants.

AFAIK, all Type 24 had 4 ShKAS MG. The nearest Type 24 variant with cannons is the Type 28.

My guess is that rocket rails were added as field mods or factory refits after 1941, once I-16 started to be repurposed as ground attack aircraft. It would be a very easy refit to do, and I get the sense that the Soviets added rocket rails to anything that would fly. But, officially, the Type 5 and Type 6 didn't have rails as built.

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by stugumby

Just curious as to if the current in game type 24 is a hybrid for spb use or should it be armed with 4mg instead of 2 20mm cannon and 2 mg, as well as rockets? And rockets ever on the type 18? Or which source is considered the best source?

The plane that is currently called an i16/24 should perhaps be renamed to i16/28 or i16/27. I like it as it is, I would hate so see its armament reduced.

[Pursuivant]

Agreed. The "Type 24" we have now is a sweet plane. It's got all the maneuverability of the I-16 without any of the real world vices that drove pilots to drink.

With the two new I-16 variants, we're doing great for getting the major variants into the game.

The remaining omissions are the Type 10, Type 10 (skis), Type 17, Type 17 (skis), and Type 24 (skis).

In particular, the Type 10 "Super Rata" would be welcome for Spanish Civil War, Sino-Japanese, and Nohomon/Kalkhin Gol scenarios.

The Type 24 Zveno could also have an additional fuel tank loadout, since this was fitted prior to some missions. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture of what it looked like.

After 1940 all I-16 were retrofitted so that their hardpoints could also be used for fuel tanks, so drop tanks should be a loadout option for the Type 5 and Type 6 series.

FWIW, here's the list of relevant variants.

Type 10 "Super Mosca" - M-25B 560 kW (750 HP) engine, 4 7.62mm ShKAS, increased armor plate for pilot, revised windscreen. Built in large numbers, used in SCW, China, & Nohomon incidents.

Type 10 Hispano-Suiza production - Used Wright-Cyclone R-1820-F-54 engine. Used in SCW.

Type 12 - As per Type 10, but 2 ShKAS MG, 2 20mm ShVAK cannons. Built in small numbers.

Type 16 - Type 10 with synchronized ShVAK 12.7mm. Only 3 built.

Type 17 - Type 10 with M-25V Engine (560 kW, 750 hp) 2 ShKAS MG, 2 20mm ShVAK cannons. Rubber tail wheel. Could be fitted with 1 additional 12.7mm UB MG under fuselage. Built in small numbers.

Type 18 - Type 10 with Shvetsov M-62 engine (620 kW, 830 hp), 2 speed supercharger, variable speed prop. Could carry 2 100 L drop tanks. Built in large numbers.

Type 19 - As per Type 10, but ShKAS MG replaced with Savin-Norov MG, prop-synchronized ShKAS removed. Only three built, but saw action in Winter War.

Type 20 v. 1 - As per Type 10, but Savin-Norov MG synched to fire through prop. Prototype only.

Type 20 v. 2 - As per Type 17 but capable of carrying 2 93 L PSB-21 drop tanks. 80 built.

Type 23 - Per type 10, but armed with RS-82 rockets. 35 built from May-Aug 1939.

Type 5 Zveno - hardpoints for 2 FAB-250 bombs, 2 95 L fuel tanks. Built in small numbers. I'm not sure this variant actually saw combat.

Type 24 Zveno - hardpoints for 2 FAB-250 bombs, 2 95 L fuel tanks. Built in small numbers. Successful, if limited, operational service.

Type 27 - As per Type 17, M-62 engine, 2 20mm ShVAK cannons. Built in small numbers.

Type 28 - As per Type 24, but 2 ShKAS MG, 2 20mm ShVAK cannons. Built in small numbers. Possibly could be added as loadout variant for Type 24.

Type 29 - 2 Syncronized ShKAS MG in nose, 1 12.7mm UBS MG under fuselage. 3 M-62, M-82, or RS-132 rocket racks on each wing. Dedicated ground attack version, built in some numbers.

Type 29 late - Starting in 1941 multi-purpose wing hard points. Could carry PLBG-100 drop tanks &/or FAB-100 bombs. Could carry 6 RS-82 rockets & 2 FAB-100 bombs, or 4 RS-132 rockets.

Type 30 - M-63 engine, built 1941-42. Not sure how many built.

UTI-4 (AKA I-16 UTI) - 2 seat trainer version of Type 5, most with fixed landing gear. Built in large numbers. Limited combat use, mostly as liaison.

[edit]It appears that Type 5 sent to China were later retrofitted with additional MG to bring them up to the Type 10 standard. This might represent a new sub-variant, or possibly just a loadout option for the Type 5.

[ElAurens]

I have seen a photo of the UTI-4 on an airfield in China being looked over by AVG pilots.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

I have seen a photo of the UTI-4 on an airfield in China being looked over by AVG pilots.

It appears that the Soviets provided a few UTI-4 as conversion trainers for the I-16 and as squadron hacks. Total numbers were probably less than 10(?).

After Japan got Germany to stop supplying arms to China in 1937, China bought a lot of military equipment from the USSR, and accepted a lot of Soviet military aide in the form of advisors. This lasted until 1941 when the Japanese and Soviets signed a non-aggression pact and the Soviets pulled out of China.

There was even a Soviet "Volunteer" Group (AKA secretly deployed VVS personnel) in China from 1937 until 1941. It consisted of about 450 pilots and technicians, and about 150 fighters (I-15, I-15bis, I-16 Type 5 and 10, with a few Type 17 and UTI-4), plus a few bombers (mostly SB-2). In total, there were about 900 aircraft of all sorts shipped to China, half of which were given to China. Over 200 Soviet pilots died in the conflict, which is far greater than AVG losses or VVS losses during the Spanish Civil War.

Very interesting stuff for students of Soviet aviation history.

Good info here:

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/G..._sky_of_ch.htm

[=UAb=Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

.....
FWIW, here's the list of relevant variants.
.....

Type 17 - ... Built in small numbers.

Type 18 - ... Built in large numbers.

.....

Type 28 - ... Built in small numbers.

Type 29 - ... built in some numbers.

.....

type 17 --> 341 prodused
type 18 --> 177 prodused
type 28 --> 293 prodused
type 29 --> 650 prodused

You open my eyes to the new meaning of words "small", "some", "large".

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by =UAb=Hedgehog

You open my eyes to the new meaning of words "small", "some", "large".

Thanks for the exact numbers and the correction. I wasn't able to find stats on production for many variants.

Obviously, "small numbers" is relative to the whole production run of I-16, and is a pretty good indication that we need more cannon-armed variants!

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by =UAb=Hedgehog

type 17 --> 341 prodused
type 18 --> 177 prodused
type 28 --> 293 prodused
type 29 --> 650 prodused

You open my eyes to the new meaning of words "small", "some", "large".

Lol