I thought there would be a forum for dark side already.

[DGDobrev]

KB: WOTN was rather a dookie. Sorry to say it, but it was. It deviated from everything KB series starting from KBTL allowed players to do: play their own game the way they see fit. NO losses? ok. Fun times? no problem. Mix and match troops? Be my guest. Diverse enemies? Hell, yes. Map stealing? Yes, sir, if you please and put the time into it.

I sure hope KB: DS does the same. The characters are interesting, albeit repeating the KB:TL/AP/CW/WOTN lineage. You do get to miss out on the last skills of a "foreign" tree (like if you go might, you miss on last tier Spirit/Magic skills), which might hinder the spirit based character - the demoness. Paladins from other games (KBTL/KBAP/KBCW) were made to utilize all trees thanks to the balanced income of runes. This allowed for great gameplay times.

I sure hope KBS allows for these series did best - sand-box-ish gameplay. Wanna go through the game seriously, taking losses and paying for your mistakes? Do so. Wanna devise a no-loss strategy? Please do. Wanna multitask? Go right ahead.

People really miss the point why KB:AP, and then KB:CW were the breath of fresh air to the franchise. Reason being: it allowed for sandbox type playstyle. It gave you challenge along with that the game did best: give you decent, engaging fights. It allowed you to get creative. It allowed people to go out on a limb and do something new that the game allowed, even if UNINTENDED by the DEVS.

I bought KBS on steam already, and I sure hope it allows for more creativity the way KBAP and KBCW did. The price is ok even if it doesn't. In view of bad games like Sacred 3, 18-19€/USD is nothing for a game that would give you over 20+ hrs of gameplay, the way the KB franchise owned by 1C always did in any installment.

Please, 1C go balls to the wall the way you did with KBAP. Let us be creative and play the game the way we want. Give us options, and leave the players saying "game too easy on normal" be.

Ever since KBTL, the game has been made to play on hard or impossible by setting challenges. They prolonged and revitalized the game. Please keep the same attitude. Please do, guys. I implore you!!

[Zhuangzi]

I'm surprised there's no Dark Side forum myself. I haven't bought it yet, pending hearing some good news hereabouts. I don't want to be burned again like we were with WOTN + Ice & Fire.

[DGDobrev]

Sheesh, I sure am glad to see you lurking around, mate Now if only KBDS gets to be out sandbox game and we get impy to pull out some challenges... I honestly swear this guy could pull out challenges in its sleep.

[zjazd18]

I'm playing it atm (Early access on steam). Game gives you little choices at the begining, but opens up very quickly. Impossible no-loss is very hard, maybe even impossible for orc (warrior class archetype). There are many changes to skill tree, and it's more unique for each class. Don't think it's possible to kite guards from maps, they are put in really tight spot and they agro range is very short. Quests seems more fun to do. Rage abilities are completly new, but share some ideas from previous ones(my fav is terrain altering one - destroying hexagons for short amount of time). Atm i feel stuck with my army - not enough good minions early on, so i guess every new game start will look the same. I'm having fun so far, wheres i forced myself to finish KB:WoTN. Can't wait to see how people figure out some impossible battles to do no-loss. Sorry for randomness of my text.

[Zhuangzi]

I'm not too bothered about no-loss. It was fun, but I'd prefer a game that was more challenging and made you feel like just WINNING a battle was an achievement.

I am still on the fence about buying this, at least immediately. One of my main problems with WOTN was that it was far, far too long and grinding. When I played Ice and Fire, I think it took 40+ hours of play just to get up to the new island. I abandoned the playthrough shortly thereafter.

So, do we have any idea roughly how long the campaign will be? I'm hoping for something more like AP's length.

And hi to you, too, DGDobrev Hopefully this will be the new KB we've been waiting for since at least Crossworlds.

EDIT: DGD, I've just read your comments on the Steam forum and I've decided to take the plunge and buy the game anyway. I figure I might as well get the preorder bonuses. Has it really been six years since The Legend? I agree with your comments about not judging the game too much pre-release in terms of bugs, but I guess I'm worried that if there are bugs now, one day out from release, they will still be there tomorrow.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to playing.

[DGDobrev]

Well, let's face it, all KB games had some bugs at launch, so it may still be the case with this one. I also think that the price is very good for this kind of game. 18€ is a decent value for everything KB is, even if it turns out to be like WOTN, so was quite ok paying for it. In the face of rougher than the average games like Sacred 3 that have the audacity to ask for 50€, I think KBDS has found a very decent price spot.

[Dword]

I started playing the KBs 2 years ago when I got AP for $3. For that price, I had nothing to lose, right? What I lost was interest in most other games!

After getting the other titles, my cost per gaming hour was still less than a penny. I didn't hesitate to pay full price for WotN and DS. I just wanted them as soon as possible.

As for being too long, I deliberately make them longer by reloading and replaying constantly. It's the sandbox effect mentioned in the Steam forum. I obviously enjoy the journey more than reaching the goal. I'm a mediocre player anyway so a low final score and massive casualties don't bother me.

I guess I'll eventually be trying for no loss on impossible, but for now I like going slow and enjoying the scenery.

My big concern after 3 DS playthroughs has already been mentioned. It's just too hard for beginners. Without a more structured tutorial and weaker enemies, I'm afraid many tryers will never become buyers. Low sales might discourage development of new KB versions. If I had played DS before AP, it might have ended up back on the shelf. Pre-release is not the final product though, so I'm hoping for the best.

[impy]

Originally Posted by DGDobrev

Sheesh, I sure am glad to see you lurking around, mate Now if only KBDS gets to be out sandbox game and we get impy to pull out some challenges... I honestly swear this guy could pull out challenges in its sleep.

Thanks for the honorable mention DG
I will not be buying new KB right away, give it a few weeks till the dust settles, somehow I cannot take another disappointment like before..

I am actually having fun at the moment with Ecania's Red Sands extended mode. I think original Crossworlds impossible difficulty was around 200%, Red Sands extreme 300%, this mode special edition is 400%, so playing it no-loss is "refreshingly hair-raising" , some stacks have over 200 000, even close to 300 000 leadership.
I said it before, when one is pushed, you're forced to adapt and still find new and cute improvements. Take pet dragon's Helmet with Antenna for example. It gives 30% increased chance to shock of your Lightning ball, for a total of 50 + 30 = 80% shock chance per ball. Therefore mage casting 3 x lightning ball in the first round has a great chance to seriously cripple enemy forces in round 1. Sometimes it is the only way forward. Take a look at screenshoot - regular stack at Nameless.

[DGDobrev]

Don't. I bought it out of my respect for what KB has done for me over the years. I usually judge a game very harshly - I think every 2-3 hours of gaming time should cost like cost 1 euro, while people judge games much more lazily these days. This is why I made the sacred 3 reference: and hence my angry rant:

[zjazd18]

Don't worry, only like 10 battles are with forced starting troops. And demoness in my opinion is the best, cause you get Demon (unit) 240hp and can summon other demons with decent leadership ratios. Then all classes have pretty much the same unit selection, very limited at start but there are some choices to make. Around 50battles in, you can have nice selection of troops. I'm playing heavy summon party (necromancers, demons, royal thorns, demonologist, and 1 red dragon (can't find more yet) for tanking initial hits, then summons take over). What i don't like they took human units, and made "dark versions" of them, with basically the same skills, kinda boring so there is Dark Paladin(can ressurect dark units) , Archmage etc. Pacing is good in this game, doesn't feel like the grind from WoTN and there is nice feeling of fallen dark champion rising in power.

BTW - Archdemons dont have halving anymore, but we get similar skill in warrior skill tree (15% chance of destroying half of the troop at 3points)