AI

[bongo0310]

I want to come back to this game, remembering how fun the random campaigns were. I was wondering if the newest patches make the AI more of a challenge. Are any of the veterans of this game getting shot down by AI every once in a while haha? I realize that a 1v1 against the AI might be a little one sided, but the campaigns have dogfights with multiple AI on both sides. Also you have to make sure you're attacking an enemy if you play with the tags off. With all of these factors together, are the campaigns still a challenge?

[greybeard1]

For random campaigns do you mean dynamic? Tha's to say DGen (or DCG)?

I'm not a veteran; I started only three years ago already with v4.10. Personally, I found AI always performing unreal evasive maneuvers, and lately situation worsened. Historical reports tell of dive or throttle-back (to be overshoot) as most common evasive maneuvers: I never read or saw on gun-camera footage scissors, barrell-rolls or volo folle and false spins, as lately added by v4.11.

About enemy AI offensive capabilities, from v4.11.1 it got an unreal aiming accuracy: once it gets at your six, you're dead (whilst veteran pilots often told they realized to be under attack by enemy tracers missing them). In addition, IL-2 is the only world were a Focke-Wulf 190A can outturn and outclimb a Spitfire, so whole scenario is IMO really hard for player (given also the little help you can get from mates).

In a poll I did at SimHQ forum about v4.11.1 I got most users thought enemy AI had become otherwordly, but there was also a minority thinking it was still too easy. Afterwards the poll was polluted by a gang of wranglers and I was forced to ask moderator to delete it, so I can't link, sorry.

I think last v4.12.2 much improved flight models (meaning that they are significantly more realistic) and enemy AI seems "calmed down". I find the whole effect pleasant and I'm loving it.

But why to ask? Updates to latest version are free (thanks to TD): just try!

[bongo0310]

Thank you so much that sounds great! I will try it out for sure, I just wanted some reassurance haha.

[IceFire]

The AI got a bit of an overhaul and continues to be worked on. Some of the biggest changes are that the AI now cannot see through their plane (they used to be able to) so what you can see out of the cockpit is what they can see. They now have to make a calculated guess for under the nose deflection shooting... speaking of which, the AI now perform deflection shooting. Previously they did this very poorly. Ace AI are extremely accurate (as good as the top 1% of online pilots) and then things go down fairly logically from there. They also have to open their radiators to cool off engines... previously they were unaffected by overheats. Oh... also AI bombers in tight formations won't shoot through each other to hit attacking fighters. This is great particularly with multi-gunned bombers like the B-17, B-24, and Pe-8.

So some good stuff overall. Still a few tweaks here and there maybe. You should check it out!

[bongo0310]

I will thanks! It sounds better with every reply haha.

[Derda508]

Originally Posted by bongo0310

I will thanks! It sounds better with every reply haha.

Definetely, you should give it a chance. Since 4.12 it looks (and also sounds if you want) like a new game. The AI changed enomously since 4.09. Naturally you will always find some people who will say that they are so terrific, that AI is no challenge at all. Just ignore that. As an offliner I found that especially re-playing old campaigns is much more challenging than before, because the campaign designers used a lot of veteran and ace AI, that now is much better than before. I also think that they apply much more sophisticated team tactics like drag and bag (never try to attack the leader first and ignore the wing-man!). Sadly I have the impression that friendly AI got even more useless than before. Besides their old suicidal ground attack behaviour they now sometimes do just the opposite of what you want. ("Cover me!" "I'm with you" ... and off they go to land on the home base). You will find very often that your whole flight will chase one single enemy plane and leaves you to deal with all rest of the bandits, who are deadly determined to wipe you and only you out of the sky. And they will always find you even from many miles away.
Since 4.10 I had to learn to fly smart, keep up energy and stay out of furballs at any cost (forget the bombers you have to protect, just try to survive.)

Have a lot of fun,

Der Da

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Derda508

Since 4.10 I had to learn to fly smart, keep up energy and stay out of furballs at any cost (forget the bombers you have to protect, just try to survive.)

Yes AI is good enough to punish your mistakes - if you ever engage AI in a plane with capability comparably to yours without any kind of advantage - prepare to get shot down. On the other hand you can use an advantage (altitude/numbers/speed/even surprise works sometimes!) against even ace AI, and if you don't totally blow it - you can keep your advantage. No more insta-1000m-climb AI.
Clouds now will work both ways - I've shot down an entire flight of Mc205 in a P-40 - because I dove onto them from cloud cover, and hid back there again.
And your own AI has a will of its own, with sometimes good and sometimes bad effects. It helps at least sometimes to order them around till they do anything nearly useful. I've manageed to survive in a 2 vs. 3 with me and my AI wingman in F4Fs and enemy in Zeros, co-alt, co-E - because my wingman actually did drag one of the Zeroes in front of my guns.
AI teamplay is pretty good now, usually good AI will try to keep you busy with a pair/single, even trying to drag you down sometimes, while the others seemingly do nothing, climb away from you - only to come back with a nice alt atvantage.
Shooting ability is okay - IMHO a touch too bad vs. targets with nearly no evasive movements and a touch too good with difficult high angle at distances. Gunners in bombers only get you a)if you get too close, b)if they have big guns(Betty rear guner is still a threat) c)if you approach them with little angular movment or d)on their lucky days - no more one shot kill from 800m.

[gaunt1]

AI's worst problem is that they arent affected by G effects. In the last campaign I played, I was flying an A6M Zero, and I was quite surprised how tough Wildcats are. They are incredibly maneuverable, both horizontally and vertically! Of course the A6M is still better in almost every aspect (except diving), but not that much as vs. a human flown Wildcat!
Or in a soviet campaign, one of my wingmen (La-5) was chasing a german in a dive, and I followed them. He succeded in downing the enemy, but they accelerated to around 650-700km/h. Still, he pulled his plane up, with probably 20-30g, and immediately looked for the next enemy! I had to pull up much earlier to avoid damage to my plane, but I was almost blacked out. And it was a much more shallow dive!

[pandacat]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

AI's worst problem is that they arent affected by G effects. In the last campaign I played, I was flying an A6M Zero, and I was quite surprised how tough Wildcats are. They are incredibly maneuverable, both horizontally and vertically! Of course the A6M is still better in almost every aspect (except diving), but not that much as vs. a human flown Wildcat!
Or in a soviet campaign, one of my wingmen (La-5) was chasing a german in a dive, and I followed them. He succeded in downing the enemy, but they accelerated to around 650-700km/h. Still, he pulled his plane up, with probably 20-30g, and immediately looked for the next enemy! I had to pull up much earlier to avoid damage to my plane, but I was almost blacked out. And it was a much more shallow dive!

+1 on this post. AI seems not to be affected by G forces. Neither do their planes. Also, even though engine overheat affects AI somewhat, it is still far from realistic. It seems fully open radiator flaps don't slow them down. I have several cases where Bf109s can outdive my p-47s even though their stats say something different. I would say 4.12 ai is better but still not quite there yet.