Wow, just wow. NO Demonesses in my game.

[ckdamascus]

I don't usually bother to check for Demonesses since they are almost always there. Yet in this nearly perfect game I have, I just came to the horrific realization that there are NO demonesses.

Well, ok, there are 21 of them IF I can beat the wizard's tower. Tell me there is a conversion process....

That is a LOT of demonesses to sacrifice for.

I am guessing if I bring fairies and such, maybe I can convert them into demonesses? Does anyone know?

OR, this means I need to get diplomacy to steal away a lot of Demonesses. Haha!

[edit]
Conversion rate is 450 gold AND trophies for dryads to demonesses.
Lake dryads are around 484 gold and trophies to convert.

Uh, that is about 73828 trophies.

Combine that with the 22500 trophies I need for Demonologists...

That is close to 100,000 trophies.

Sacrificing is starting to look FAR less tedious. Or I am going to have to give up on using one of those units. So much for my super demonic build.

WOW, just WOW.

The EASIEST method for me is to simply get ONE point in Diplomacy. Who would have guessed that the Paladin Mind Tree would be so useful!

[shqiponja_hayabusa]

Ahem....demonesses succ....ahem. What do you need demonesses for anyway. I can't really find any use for them, if you were going for the demon build, they get a 20% damage upgrade, but I think in your 5-demon army they don't deserve the slot. If you are going for the female build then still you are wasting a slot. Forget about them (oh right the teleportation, after that?)

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by shqiponja_hayabusa

Ahem....demonesses succ....ahem. What do you need demonesses for anyway. I can't really find any use for them, if you were going for the demon build, they get a 20% damage upgrade, but I think in your 5-demon army they don't deserve the slot. If you are going for the female build then still you are wasting a slot. Forget about them (oh right the teleportation, after that?)

Admittedly, it isn't one of my most powerful projected builds, but it seems like potential fun!

I'm sure you meant to say they bare a striking resemblance to Succubi.

I sort of got bored with my Super Orc / Super Goblin build. It was surprisingly strong, but less flexible in doing no-loss since I didn't really have that many disposable tanks. It was oddly a lot like my old Pure Range Build, even if it only had one ranged unit in it.

So, I believe Mages are probably still the best choice to field a No-Loss demonic build, as per impy's old demonic run. Paladins can't revive demons. Ancient Phoenix can't revive demons. Only Rune Mages and good old fashioned Resurrection.

My projected build will be
Demon
Demoness
Executioner
Rune Mage
Demonologist

With all the items I have checked out AND a pentagram from Demon, I should achieve 100% critical. However, due to low leadership of the mage, this is nothing impressive. So I need to cast debuffs such as Pygmy, helplessness, or maybe even a mini nuke or another summon every round. Since my team has little ranged power, I need teleport.

I really want demonesses to help me save me from casting the initial teleport, or to pull in a critical enemy.

The executioner is waay too slow so demoness sets him up. With Agvares, she should do a little bit more damage.

Rune Mage for revival and summon (plus leadership bonus with Archmage ability for Mage) and Demonologist, same thing, but weaker.

Demons are pretty darn sticky since they have infinite retaliations. With the proper buffs, and enough disposable tanks, I think they can really put on some pain.

Also, I am fairly certain all my summons gain from +critical to demons and my base +criticals, so we are talking about a lot of beefed up effective damage.

The Mage has too low leadership to make a super single stack (without buffs that is), but with enough summons yielding crits, it might make up for that difference!

[DGDobrev]

As a person who used demonesses on a regular basis, I have to say that they are an extremely useful units. ckdamascus has clearly made a very offensive lineup (adding both demons and executioners in it) and the demonesses with their good initiative fit in perfectly.

Demonesses have 3 distinct qualities - first, they can teleport a stone-skinned Executioners stack directly into the enemy lines, swapping it with a low-defense enemy stack that will easily be butchered by the demons in his own lineup. Second, they can covert a weakened stack to their control for a few turns. Third, they make decent off-tanks (secondary tanks) who take less hits when attacking thanks to their special abilities.

Demonesses are very much a worthwhile addition to any army that tolerates (race relations are a very important concept in all KB games) them without a significant morale penalty. The Girl Power army comes to mind first (Lake Faerie, Tree Faerie, Dryad, Demoness + 1 stack that can resurrect) with a Rune Mage/Demonologist is very solid for the better part of the game, as almost all of them have no retaliation ability and if you add stone skin and target to that combo, you get some rather interesting and easy to win battles

SPOILER: Stone skin the rune magi, have the demonesses swap them for a low-defense stack, have the fairies and dryads quickly kill the swapped stack - can be done even in a single round - cast target on the rune magi and simply move the girls to finish off the enemy stacks while they hack at the well protected Rune Magi.

[Saiko Kila]

Stacks possessed by demonesses can be sacrificed, so it's a free Domination. Ability to swap enemy weaklings with own tanks is very funny and very useful. Also males of all races (including demons and neutrals) can have hard time hitting demonesses. I usually don't keep demonesses as base units, I prefer to summon them, but I used them a lot in KBTL and I rank them still above average.

Hm, I never had problems with availability of demonologists and demonesses (always had many times more than I needed), tough luck it seems.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Saiko Kila

Stacks possessed by demonesses can be sacrificed, so it's a free Domination. Ability to swap enemy weaklings with own tanks is very funny and very useful. Also males of all races (including demons and neutrals) can have hard time hitting demonesses. I usually don't keep demonesses as base units, I prefer to summon them, but I used them a lot in KBTL and I rank them still above average.

Hm, I never had problems with availability of demonologists and demonesses (always had many times more than I needed), tough luck it seems.

Yes, inspired by playing as other classes and reading other players combos, I realize that key units help save me mana and rounds of casting spells, even if I do have double cast.

It is rather annoying to revive using phantom or resurrection after a verry expensive Sacrifice spell.

Or, even more annoying to cast Hypnosis (40), then wait next round to Sacrifice that unit (40). I don't even know if I will even have that much mana.

Hopefully, the demonesses will help restore the ranks of demonologists.

I'm also verry shocked. First few games in AP I ever played, I had more than enough demonologists and demonesses.

Later on, demonologists were quite rare for me.

Now demonesses are a rarity in this game. Haha. Sort of sad that by the time I get my nice army, there won't be much left to fight. Unless I can find an easy way to beat the wizard's tower and verona capital.

I hope I can simply fight an enemy stack with demonologists, but now that I think about it, they seem pretty rare too. UNLESS I can use diplomacy in the battle in the Wizard's Tower. Anyone know if I can? Because I know there are boatloads of demonologists in that one fight...

[edit]
this probably won't work since the game is hardwired to restore your original troops after you leave the tower.

Sort of funny how I will now gain a big advantage because I am playing in Impossible. Using diplomacy, 8% of those oversized enemy stacks is faster than ANY other method of procuring those units.

DG, thanks for the tips. Unfortunately, while this game has very nice items such as two Dress of the Magess, I don't have any girl power items.

But, wow that's a pretty scary combo though, definitely something I want to look forward to in future matches.

My runemages will be sad (-1 morale), but eh. They aren't there as fighters, simply as 30% chance sheepers, revivers, and make more tanks.

By the way, does anyone know how the Archmage Unit's shock is calculated? If it is based on his critical hit... wow. I can hit 100% critical hits with archmages easily. Unfortunately, they are such worthless combat units (ok fine, they can cast magic shield... then what?).

[BB Shockwave]

In my first Walkthrough of AP, there were only about 120 Gorguls in the game. I had to use Sacrifice (as a Warrior!) to get the rest. IN my current walkthrough... there are NO Gorguls ANYWHERE. Not that I plan to use them, just checked out of curiosity.

Frankly, I wish units of Elven/Demon/Lizardmen races would appear more often in other islands too. I never have trouble finding humans, orcs or Dwarves, they are everywhere.

Intersting thread, as I am considering using Demons in my next walkthough. On Hard, as on Impossible the halving ability of Archdemon and Charm of Demoness would be of very little use.
I would consider a line-up of Archdemons (skirmisher,hit-and-run), Demons/or Executioners(tanks), Demonesses (support unit/charmer), Demonologists (summoners/ranged attackers) and Scoffer Imps (ranged attack, skirmisher, debuff). I am thinking about using Cerberi instead of imps, I might lose ranged attack, but their new "charge" ability and 3-headed attack would make them excellent blockers for archers, specially with stone skin. As for Demons/Executioners... I might swap them depending on battle. They have similar stats and abilities, but Executioners are slower and thus better tanks, and have one de-buff talent and a de-buff ability, while Demons are jack-of-all-trades: they buff your units, they summon fodder, and they are fast too.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by BB Shockwave

In my first Walkthrough of AP, there were only about 120 Gorguls in the game. I had to use Sacrifice (as a Warrior!) to get the rest. IN my current walkthrough... there are NO Gorguls ANYWHERE. Not that I plan to use them, just checked out of curiosity.

Frankly, I wish units of Elven/Demon/Lizardmen races would appear more often in other islands too. I never have trouble finding humans, orcs or Dwarves, they are everywhere.

Intersting thread, as I am considering using Demons in my next walkthough. On Hard, as on Impossible the halving ability of Archdemon and Charm of Demoness would be of very little use.
I would consider a line-up of Archdemons (skirmisher,hit-and-run), Demons/or Executioners(tanks), Demonesses (support unit/charmer), Demonologists (summoners/ranged attackers) and Scoffer Imps (ranged attack, skirmisher, debuff). I am thinking about using Cerberi instead of imps, I might lose ranged attack, but their new "charge" ability and 3-headed attack would make them excellent blockers for archers, specially with stone skin. As for Demons/Executioners... I might swap them depending on battle. They have similar stats and abilities, but Executioners are slower and thus better tanks, and have one de-buff talent and a de-buff ability, while Demons are jack-of-all-trades: they buff your units, they summon fodder, and they are fast too.

Yeah, it is a little sad that you really have to kite or get lucky with certain maps to make use of some of these troops.

Heh, just imagine how much harder it is to Sacrifice in Impossible mode due to diminished rage rates, etc. Actually for lower HP units as the "target of growth", it isn't too bad. Level 1 Sacrifice a Level 5 Unit instead, so they are easy to heal as opposed to consuming resurrections.

I don't see how Impossible mode precludes you from using the Archdemon and Demonesses excellent abilities. If the enemy becomes weakened enough, the Halving still works wonders, same with the Charm ability. You probably just can't do it in round 1.

You can use the new old spell "Soul Draining" to help get to this goal too.

What is this new charge ability of the Cerebi? If you mean "Leap", they always had that in AP. Did they improve it?

[DGDobrev]

ckdamascus - I rarely used girl power items for a girl power army... However, I can see how 2 dresses of magess can be appealing for a different style of play - I would easily go for a more offensive style of play as well.

There are many strong points towards using a girl power army, but there are many problems. The girl power army can beat up a lot of enemies with ease - problem is, they have big problems against dragons (wicked magic resistance), other level 5 units (target doesn't affect them) and bosses (many will hit them anyway). On the positive note, any army composed of level 1-4 units (and some level 5 units with poor magic resistance) bites the dust in record time. Simply cast stone skin and target on the high-level tanker unit (like rune magi, paladins, etc.) and all done

In general, all a girl power army needs is Agvares. The rest is just a bonus - not to mention that he actually has a number of really useful item slots (weapon, dress/armor, belt/gloves, artifact).

Not to mention it's a lot of fun playing with them

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by DGDobrev

ckdamascus - I rarely used girl power items for a girl power army... However, I can see how 2 dresses of magess can be appealing for a different style of play - I would easily go for a more offensive style of play as well.

There are many strong points towards using a girl power army, but there are many problems. The girl power army can beat up a lot of enemies with ease - problem is, they have big problems against dragons (wicked magic resistance), other level 5 units (target doesn't affect them) and bosses (many will hit them anyway). On the positive note, any army composed of level 1-4 units (and some level 5 units with poor magic resistance) bites the dust in record time. Simply cast stone skin and target on the high-level tanker unit (like rune magi, paladins, etc.) and all done

In general, all a girl power army needs is Agvares. The rest is just a bonus - not to mention that he actually has a number of really useful item slots (weapon, dress/armor, belt/gloves, artifact).

Not to mention it's a lot of fun playing with them

I never had a good reason to pick Agvares until now and I wasn't even really thinking girl power despite the strong synergy. Yes, my primary reason is actually his item slots.

I required someone who could hold a weapon and a belt, which narrowed it down to Moldok, Moro Dark, and Agvares.

Since I was going demonic, Agvares had that slight edge with the demonesses. The double dress thing is a big plus too. I even got two of those "Advisors Dress" items spawned, but clearly the Dress of the Magess (sic) is superior.

I don't have twinkling, but I have slippery cuirass, so more armor slots the better. The artifact slot is good too.

I hope this works...

[edit]
Ugh, I'm a fool. I was trying so hard to beat the final level of the Wizard's Tower to get the initial seed of Demonesses when it just hit me.

I could just get the initial seed from the Lake Faeries! It would prevent me from using trophies, but I am getting more certain that it was only designed for this purpose and that growing was meant to be done via Sacrifice.

I do regret getting Diplomacy now though. Sacrificing is much easier than I originally thought. Bleh. I guess I did not waste too many runes.