Turning radius

Drvn1 · #1 07-15-2010, 12:36 AM

Hey guys.. i love playing the game, however here recently about 99% of the time I get into a turning battle I lose and lose big.. We did a match with everyone having a BF 109G6 and it seemed like everyone that i got into a turning match with could just cut my turn in half and I never had a chance or we would do a head on and i would break immediately and the next second I am getting shot down regaurdless. I is very frustrating and discouraging.. I am looking for tips and technique on how to make such a sharpe turn. I know all about the elevator sensitivity and etc, that is not the issue here. i know there is a technique that i'm not being told... I'm new and I know you all learned how to do these things, but it took you like a year to figure out, i don't have a year to do so as noone will be playing it then.. i wish to be competitive now and any help would be appreciated...

Robotic Pope · #2 07-15-2010, 01:14 AM

Ive been playing the game online since it came out and I still struggle to turn with some people when flying the same plane as them, its one reason why I mostly boom and zoom. Brickster for example can out turn me easily if we both fly his spit xvi and I watch him and he is doing nothing different than me, no yoyos, same speed, same elevator sensitivity. I think it might be the joystick gives you an advantage over the gamepad. I find yo-yos doesn't really work with the joypad as you can't use full elevator at the same time as using your ailerons to roll because the joypad sticks only have a circular range of motion. Don't know about the xbox flightsticks but all my pc sticks have always had a square stick motion so you can use full elevtor and full ailerons at the same time (good way to stall lol).

Ive even tested this with Over G fighters which has a stick calibration option. You can shape the circular xbox sticks to work more like a square shaped one, and the difference it makes in manovrability is huge.

Cryptic Phant0m · #3 07-15-2010, 01:50 AM

I know what you are talking about, I was in a dog fight with another I-16 Type 24 and every time I would go into a loop he would some how beat me in the exact same loop, as if he was turning sharper then me.

SEE · #4 07-15-2010, 01:55 AM

In the last match I played with you and Squirrel you were both flying Bf's but I was in the Yak3 and, in horizontal turn fights, your BF's hadn't a cat in hells chance as long as I refrained from engaging in the vertical. Some planes are just better in pure horizontal turns but all ac have an optimimum cornering speed - the faster you fly the greater the turning radius. The use of combat flaps, correct airspeed and chopping throttle, changing altitude (yo yo's, etc), yawing into a skid turn to bleed off excess speed (use of rudder) are all part of turning fights. I don't think there are any secrets or techniques that people are keeping secret. Brickster can out turn an LA in his Spitfire and when I asked him how he did it he said he monitors his airspeed but interestingly he uses a lower Elevator setting than I do on the same Spit. Squirrel performs outrageous turns in the LA but with no blackouts on the Xbox he gets away with it (we all do I guess!). Soviet Ace had a thread that described the concepts of turning radius and how speed is used in lag/lead persuits to overcome one planes ability to out-turn another and how the centre point of each ac's turn radius eventually gives one plane the angle of attack. If he reads your post I'm sure he will explain it once again.

Soviet Ace · #5 07-15-2010, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drvn1

Hey guys.. i love playing the game, however here recently about 99% of the time I get into a turning battle I lose and lose big.. We did a match with everyone having a BF 109G6 and it seemed like everyone that i got into a turning match with could just cut my turn in half and I never had a chance or we would do a head on and i would break immediately and the next second I am getting shot down regaurdless. I is very frustrating and discouraging.. I am looking for tips and technique on how to make such a sharpe turn. I know all about the elevator sensitivity and etc, that is not the issue here. i know there is a technique that i'm not being told... I'm new and I know you all learned how to do these things, but it took you like a year to figure out, i don't have a year to do so as noone will be playing it then.. i wish to be competitive now and any help would be appreciated...

When going into a turning fight, it's key that you cut your throttle at least in half, maybe a little more, just above the stall speed of a turn. If you have to, you can always pick up a little speed in the turn if you're bleeding the speed of too much and are about to stall out. It's simple really, because if you're going into a turning fight flying a Russian plane for example, and you've got too much speed going into the turn in the first place, chopping throttle in half will help out greatly. But don't slow down too much, because even though you'll be able to turn sharper, you'll take a bit more time than your opponent. So always adjust your throttle to your enemy, so you can keep him/her in front of your sights and then when they get the picture to break, you'll have an opening to chase which is where you throttle to the max and chase after him, blasting your enemy out of the sky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryptic Phant0m

I know what you are talking about, I was in a dog fight with another I-16 Type 24 and every time I would go into a loop he would some how beat me in the exact same loop, as if he was turning sharper then me.

As for you, the I-16 in BoP is an interesting little plane for turning. Because it's best skill in the game, is turning. Not it's speed, not it's climb or dive, but it's turning and rolling. So when going into a turn with another I-16, I've realized (and I've come to this with the Yak-3 on here too,) that if you're in a heavy fight, it's best to throttle all the way forward, giving it WEP every so often. (I think it was another design flaw in the game, because it shouldn't work like this.) But if you're flying any Russian plane really, whether it's an Lavochkin against a Spit or a Yak against a 109, you should always have the advantage of turning sharper. Though, in reality and in '46, the LA's and Yak's wouldn't stall out so fast as a Spitfire because of their more slender wings.

Anyway, I kinda forgot what I was going to say after, but when in a turning fight always adjust your throttle appropriately to your enemies. That way you'll be glued to his six and gradually he'll stall out or break from the turn, giving you your chance of attack.

Robotic Pope · #6 07-15-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SEE

In the last match I played with you and Squirrel you were both flying Bf's but I was in the Yak3 and, in horizontal turn fights, your BF's hadn't a cat in hells chance as long as I refrained from engaging in the vertical. Some planes are just better in pure horizontal turns but all ac have an optimimum cornering speed - the faster you fly the greater the turning radius. The use of combat flaps, correct airspeed and chopping throttle, changing altitude (yo yo's, etc), yawing into a skid turn to bleed off excess speed (use of rudder) are all part of turning fights. I don't think there are any secrets or techniques that people are keeping secret. Brickster can out turn an LA in his Spitfire and when I asked him how he did it he said he monitors his airspeed but interestingly he uses a lower Elevator setting than I do on the same Spit. Squirrel performs outrageous turns in the LA but with no blackouts on the Xbox he gets away with it (we all do I guess!). Soviet Ace had a thread that described the concepts of turning radius and how speed is used in lag/lead persuits to overcome one planes ability to out-turn another and how the centre point of each ac's turn radius eventually gives one plane the angle of attack. If he reads your post I'm sure he will explain it once again.

All that is true but i'm convinced there is more. The fact is that Ive always stuggled to turn with some people flying the same plane as me and these people are always using a flightstick rather than the pad. Drvn is having the same problem while using the pad.

Angelo, you are the knowledge master of all xbox sticks. Please can you tell me if the sticks make full use of the X and Y axis? Can you shove the stick into a corner like the WWII fighter pilots used to say?

The 360 joypad doesn't and can't. Imagine calibating a 360 pad on a pc, the sticks only move in a circle so it leaves out the corners of the calibation box; limiting the use of the two axis at the same time. You can't perform YoYos to gain an advantage with the joypad because as soon as you use your ailerons to change your angle of turn you lose around 20% off you maximum elevator range. This equates to a huge part of the planes turning ability being lost and the pilot being at a big disadvantage.

There is no way around it, you just have to avoid turning battles unless you know your plane has a significant turn advantage over your enemy.

Edit: Noticed this very much tonight online. Even making slight adjustments with your ailerons in a turn decreases your turn rate rather dramaticly.

GA_JUSTICE · #7 07-15-2010, 08:52 PM

I am very new to this Game but I had found that in horizontal 360 turns you can out turn other planes by using your roders to yaw toward the ground and then place plane parallel and star the horizontal again . This manuver cut the 360 degree radious to half and must of the time you will end with good target angle. I have done it in Simulator mode and realistic mode not to good in Arcade

Drvn1 · #8 07-16-2010, 12:14 AM

Thanks guys for the tips... I have a flight stick now (Cybourg FLY 9) and played for the first time with it today and boy i got whooped lol.. I could stay on peoples six pretty good, but the team i was playing against had a Spit and a I 153, every time I would get on the spit's six the by plane would screw me royal LOL.

BTW Evangeluse I didn't quit the game, my daughter pushed my on/off button lol

SEE · #9 07-16-2010, 01:14 AM

I quit just after you did DRVN as that match was just going on for ever and a classic example of when not to engage in turning fights (in this case my Spit against an I-16 and yours against the I-153).

As for the flightstick v Game controller Robotic, both have a similar set up with a potentiometer for each axis. The only true test to see if one has a greater input on their respective axis is to hitch an Xbox game controller to a PC flightstick calibration menu. I will let you know but an important point is that when you reduce the sensitivity on the Y axis (elevators) in BOP you are actually reducing the full input movement of the Y axis even though you are pushing it to the limit of its travel. I am not convinced that you are suffering any disadavantage in terms of full range of deflection when using the game controller as both have circular movement even though the calibration menu on PC's shows the movement within a square.

vdomini · #10 07-16-2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drvn1

Hey guys.. i love playing the game, however here recently about 99% of the time I get into a turning battle I lose and lose big.. We did a match with everyone having a BF 109G6 and it seemed like everyone that i got into a turning match with could just cut my turn in half and I never had a chance or we would do a head on and i would break immediately and the next second I am getting shot down regaurdless. I is very frustrating and discouraging.. I am looking for tips and technique on how to make such a sharpe turn. I know all about the elevator sensitivity and etc, that is not the issue here. i know there is a technique that i'm not being told... I'm new and I know you all learned how to do these things, but it took you like a year to figure out, i don't have a year to do so as noone will be playing it then.. i wish to be competitive now and any help would be appreciated...

Keep flaps in combat position when turning, it helps a lot!

Also, try to adjust your throttle to get closer at your enemy. There is not a general rule for this that works for every situation, you have to check your turn trajectory, speed and radius compared to enemy position and fly trajectory. Sometimes, to outturn an eneny plane, i just turn in WEP. sometimes i need to reduce power to 0.

Keep in mind that speed make your plane turn faster, but will increase turn radius. Also, speed will make your plane more reactive and agile. Good Luck!