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#1
10-19-2009, 03:34 PM
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UK tanks
Hello everyone, and thanks for reading my post. This will cover 2 things, 1. Underpowered and unrealistic UK guns, primarily the 17pdr. and 2. The tanks that should be in the game, but are not. I apologize for the wall of text in advance lol, this has just been really bugging me.
Alright, so, the 17 pdr anti tank and the one mounted on tanks is quite underpowered in the game. Yes, its still rather strong, but not as powerful as it should be. In WW2 the 17 pdr was able to penetrate 140mm of armor at 500 meters away using the APCBC round, and 209mm of armor at 500 meters using the APDS round. I understand that these stats are a bit overpowering to put in a game, it can be scaled down, but its scaled down way to much in the game, at 70 yds it can only penetrate 130mm or armor in the game. It should be able to penetrate tigers and panthers at the front from atleast 100-120 meters. Doesnt sound to overpowering to me, considering this was the best anti tank gun the Allies had during the war, it still sounds a bit underpowered to me, but i cant ask for everything, eh? I also find my self unable to beat panthers and tigers from the front, unless im 70 meters away from them, but even then its not a sure thing. Im sure you could imagine how hard it is to drive up to 70 meters, or maybe 80 might work, aim, and shoot at a panther with a tank that only has 76mm of armor (M4A4 VC firefly). 2nd, The only UK tank that can take a hit from a Panther or Tiger, and a KT at a certain range is the centurion (not counting the turtle). Yet this tank never saw action in WW2, yet the best UK tank of WW2 isnt even in the game, the Cruiser tank A34 Comet. This tank had 102mm of armor, a 76MM HV gun, (17 pdr with a shorter barrel), Able to go at 32 mph. This tank would balance the UK, and give them a fighting chance with tigers in panthers in slug outs. This tank is deadly, and i know, it didnt see much action in WW2, but it still saw action, unlike the centurion, or the T29. This tank mainly used APDS rounds which was unusual, since it penetrated much more then the standard APCBC round, but didnt cause as much damage after penetrating, (it still caused massive damage, of course), making up for the velocity lost with the shorter barrel. (Many, Many mods have the comet, but i cant enjoy playing those mods because not many people have them online) Sorry for the wall of text, but i hope you enjoy reading my post, and i hope you guys down at 1c consider adding these changes in the next update for Men of war. 
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#2
10-23-2009, 06:17 PM
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i would love to see the comet in the game,
the centurion is a fantastic looking model and i take my hat off to whoever made it, but i think you are correct in what you say about the comet being the better choice to place in this game because the centurion didnt see any action!!!
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#3
10-26-2009, 12:40 AM
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indeed
this would be a fantastic idea take the pos but awsome looking cent heck just take all the uk tanks sept firefly and add the comet to replace it all i really use is the firefly its awsome just needs the armor of a jumbo but yea usa needs to be better to i mean a t29? its cool looking to but sucks
i find pershing for usa firefly for uk if you use them right you can accomplish endless posibilities on the field i took 3 is3s a pershing and a t29 eith 1 firefly in ffa mode tho but still 1 FIREFLY taking all thoose out and finaly running out off gass in mid of battlefield and being poped in engine and going boom that tank needs to be remebered R.I.P that poor firefly a moment of silence plz. ---------------------------------------------- 2 hrs later ok now moving on the uk are very under powered i saw a video of a firefly desimating a tiger on youtube real acctul footage (from men of war) i really think that you are on to something flint and i hope the creators adknowaldge this big mistake of underpowered uk cause if there tanks sucked how did they last so long in real life p.s uk right now is an ambush/flanking country and should not be used in common slugouts like they should be they need boosted alot i really despritlyhope they add the comet but the turtle is awsome ambusher if you position it right Cmdr.Misktavine over and out see you on the battlefield soldier cant wait for a fricking comet. Last edited by Cmdr.Miskyavine; 10-29-2009 at 12:01 PM.
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#4
10-26-2009, 12:47 AM
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o yea
o yea forgot to say i really thinkk they left out alot of uk and usa tanks just so everyone would do russia on germany really makes me mad when i think about it im not insulting the company im just saying WTF ARE YOU RIGHT IN DA HEAD IT SEEMS LIKE THEY FAVOR USSR AND GERMANY i mean they have like what no missing tanks in there countrys yet the americans are missing half there good tanks and uk is missing most of there tanks and there best tank
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#5
10-26-2009, 01:17 AM
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Actually the 17 Pdr. was able was penetarte the Tiger II at 1,000 meters is a lower hull nose (100mm. sloped) or front turrent hit (185mm.) with the APDS round fron late 1944 onwards.
By comparison, the 88mm. L71 gun of the Tiger II could penetrate a maximum of just over 290 mm. at the same range. Now there is some confusion and mythology concerning peformnaces of AT weapons. Because a gun has a maximum penetration figure at range X doesn't actually mean that every shell fired will achieve this due to countless lawas of physics. AT gun designers have been aware of this since the science became. For example, a gun has a maximum penetration, when tested, of 100mm. (best result attained).
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#6
10-26-2009, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
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#7
10-26-2009, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
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#8
10-26-2009, 02:12 PM
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#9
10-27-2009, 02:01 AM
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you didnt under stand me flint
i said there a flanking country even tho they should be a slug out coutry thats what i ment
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#10
10-27-2009, 02:59 AM
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A gun fires a KE Projectile with a maximum penetration, at range X, of 100mm. of vertical armour.
If the target has 50mm. of vertical armour and is at range X, the shot has a 50% chance of penetration and 50% chance of bouncing off, shattering on impact or becoming embedded in the armour. This is because muzzle velocity is not a constant but varies according to the burn rate of each individual shell's propellant as it travels along the barrel, the amount residue remaining in the barrel from previous shots (this can vary as each shot can either add more soot or scour the barrel. Fanatical cleaning of AT and tank gun barrels was more out of increasing the chances of survival than routine. Then there is the blemishes on each individual projectile which varies drag coefficents. Often wondered why tank crews polish AP shells.... now you know. In flight, air density between the gun and target varies with each shot and so this varies the final velocity of the shot on reaching the target. All this, generally falling under the "Chaos Theory" banner, when it comes to any hope of consistancy between shots, is why artillery shells fall into an average beaten zone and not land in the same shell hole. Back to the gun shooting at a target at range X. Asume that the range of all the test targets is range X, the same gun and projectile are used throughout. If the target has a horizonal armour thickness of 50mm. but is angled to 30 Degrees, the chances of the shell not penetrating the armour is increased to 68%, so now the shot has only a 22% chance of a penetration. If the target has a horizontal armour thickness of 50mm. but is angled to 60 Degrees, the chance of the shell not penetrating the armour is increased to 84%, so now the shot has only a 16% chance of penetration. If the target has a horizontal thickness ranging from 1mm. to anything, but is inclined to any angle from 72 Degrees to 90 Degrees, the chance of the shot not penetrating is now 100% and the chance of the shot pentrating is 0%. 72 Degrees is known as "The Skate Angle" and is what you need to achiece to skip stones across water, be grazed by a bullet, etc. For a home brew practical experiment, for those with access ti firearms, air or BB guns, try the following to confirm the above. Take a piece of thick hard wood that you know the gun won't easily penetrate and fire any number of shots at it. Go to the piece of wood and measure the depth of each shot and they'll all be different, even with air and compressed gas weapons. The difference between a AT weapon's maximum penetration and the average thickness of armour that its intended targets will have is refered to as the "Overkill Margin". This is always desired to give a somewhere between 60% and 70% chance of penetrating the average thickness of armour of known enemy AFVs, even today. German WW2 AT gun designers went for 80% to 90%, thus ensuring that their enemy's attempts at thickening armour of new AFVs would not be that effective. Further more, German AFV designers strove to make sure that German tanks would have sufficient frontal armour to give enemy AT weapons only a 30% or less chance of a first shot penetration, bearing in mind that the Germans meticuously tested every gun captured AT weapon and munition at the Rheim-Metal Borstig test facility and ranges. Upgrade in shell designs maintained this advantage throughout WW2. The Allies struggled to keep up with German AFV designs and upgrades. The Soviets had to be given Allied propellant technology as they were still using Blackpowder, with Celluose Accetate primer, as their propellants in everything from small arms to AT guns, hence the abismal performance of Soviet AT and tank guns during the 1941 invasion. During the Gulf and Iraq wars, the NATO 120mm. smoothbore tank gun had a better than 75% chance of a first round penetartion of the frontal 100mm. armour of the Iraqi T-54, T-55 and T-62 tanks at 2,000 metres. By comparison, the 115mm. guns of the Iraqi tanks had a less than 20% chance of penetrating the frontal armour of the US M1 Abrams tank and 0% chance of penetrating the even thicker frontal armour of the British Challenger II tank even at point blank range. The frontal armour of a Challenger II exceeds the point blank maximum penetration, with FSAPDS, of the 115mm. tank gun. Throw in superior fire control and sighting systems of the Coalition tanks and you have a very in even fight. Last edited by Panzergranate; 10-27-2009 at 03:03 AM.
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