IL2 and Sound Modding

[LEXX]

Good poast RatSack. Who knows how many Offline players besides yourself did not learn about supporting websites while Online players(*) would learn very quickly, by definition.

(*) Say a family has a brother and sister who play FB Offline, and one day Pa sets up a LAN for them. They would now be "online" players or at least "multiplay" but still offline from the larger online world and may never find out about it all. This of course is an interesting but purely theoretical counter-example that is probably safely ignored.


robtek::

I would like it the way it is right now: buy the game, pay for substantial upgrades and
leave the online play for donated servers.

Yes, a donated server is a volunteer Pay-to-Play server, which in this sim share the restrictions and limits on immersive features of the "free" servers in the attempt to prevent social cheating behavior through computer coding.


Bear::

When I started simming highspeed was the exception... today it is the rule and dialup is the exception.

In Ussia perhaps. The growing number of people in the rest of the world who are gaining access to game-worthy computers for the first time may not have the new Ussian standards of high speed internets. So we are back to where we started. No matter the numbers made up by anybody here -- if its 50% Offline and 50% Online, they would then have to be willing to share the sim equally, provided the developer is willing to allow them to share.

[Billfish]

Welp, I tried....Tried to present ways throughout these threads so some modding group, any group could take a leadership role....Yet none got it, right down to trying to give the modders a way to lay claim to their rights to do this...All refused, so ok, I agree..........Only 5% of all players are onliners.

That said, here is what your forcing of this point generates whether you realize it or not....

To change a system, you must be part of it. Most here as pro-modders claiming to be 100% offliners, most of the balance claiming only rarely to only in the past. Fair enough.

Point blank, anyone claiming to NOT be an onliner instantly whether they realize it or not just devalued their opinions as to the mods and how they affect the gaming community to nill/0/zip/nadda.........Most deffinately you may have an opinion. Sadly however it doesn't count. Anyone here with even a minimal intelligence realizing that you have put yourself into a position of nothing to lose, everything to gain, and feeling no responsibility to the online community as it does not affect you in any way shape or form. Many even clearly stating they point blank "Do NOT Care".

Once again, you may have an opinion, yet to the online community it doesn't count.

So that leaves a supposed 5% of all sales to count....Most here having clearly through numerous posts having stated over and over their on/off line affiliations so everyone else knowing who's opinion is of value in this discussion......As only, I say again, ONLY online players are affected, and therefor have a valid opinion as to modding and its affect upon the simulation online community. They are the only ones at risk here, they are the only ones that must endure any abuse caused by the mods, they are the only ones who in the end and as proven by the numerous pro-modding offliners are concerned for the integrity of the sim knowing the value of online play.

Do not try and now justify the validity of your statements if having claimed to be an offliner, as just as many did by modding in the first place, you have yourself, excluded yourself from having a valuable opinion risking your own play as to the affect of modding on online play.

Congratulations 95%, this is the harvest you have sown. I give in to your number and await the valid 5% to discuss the issue that affects them at hand.

K2

[Ratsack]

Originally Posted by Billfish

....

Congratulations 95%, this is the harvest you have sown. I give in to your number and await the valid 5% to discuss the issue that affects them at hand.

K2

That would have to be the most arrogant post I've seen from you, and it's not worthy of you.

Calm down and think again.

cheers,
Ratsack

[Billfish]

Why would I rethink something I have since the beginning of this debate pushed the opposing side to realize. Having waited and rehashed over and over hoping someone would get the hint as they'll naturally not be "told". Why would I continue battling a position with my goal being the detriment of my own positions foundation.....I offered up the chance over and over as did many others, yet the "offline" groups claim is firm.

Nothing arrogant about it....You either risk and therefor have a stake in it, or do not and therefor do not have to live with the effects of it. It's a very simple concept...and if you'll review my posts in virtually everyone, you'll note I discuss responsibility....Responsibility taking ownership, and risking as much if not more.

Responsibility refused, no risk at all........This is not the situation I made, just a simple fact anyone can see.

K2

[LEXX]

Ratsack, actually, its fascinating if you think about it. Also revealing from a social behavioral standpoint is the Risk and Responsibility (RR) that BillFish poasted about next.

There does seem to be a growing Online player interest in modding up. The "responsible" Online modders don't visit no-mod servers, but both the mod and no-mod anonymous public server players are taking a "risk" of playing with "irresponsible" Online modders who visit either mod or no-mod anonymous public servers. It appears that even the AAA modders' server, which I think is an anonymous public server, has seen at least one (1) example of mod cheating. If that is the case, then that must be the ultimate PROOF of Online mod cheating and tells us that mod cheating has nothing to do with mods but everything to do with social behavior.

By the "95 Percent" accounting rule, the 95 took on 95% of the financial risk and financial responsibility in Oleg's sim.

[Ratsack]

It's just a nonsensical and arrogant position. To assert that people who bought the sim have no valid opinion is arrogance of the worst sort. To assert that they have no valid opinion because they don't play in your particular sand pit is not just arrogant, it's ignorant.

I actually wish the sim had never been cracked. But that has nothing to do with the fact that I fly 50-75% of the time off line. As far as I can see, LeB is trying to discredit and discard the opinions of a section of the IL-2 using public. She at first tried to discount them on the grounds that they're not really a majority, and when that didn't fly she's tried to argue they have no 'stake' anyway.

It smacks of debating-team rationalisation. The guts of it is that LeB thinks off liners will generally hold opinions different to hers, so she attempts to discredit or minimize that opinion. It's rude, if nothing else.

cheers,
Ratsack

[ElAurens]

Wait a frickin minute here.

DerAlte is saying that the publisher should take legal action agianst someone who supports the developer's and publisher's position that decompling the sim (hacking) is theft of intellectual property because that person is hurting future sales?

This is the single most twisted piece of non-logic I have heard in my 54 years on this planet.

Honestly son, did you read you own post?

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by uf_josse

Hi all

So, Bearcat, i am here, you can fire at will
Yes, i am modding, yes, with some modders, we have made our own site...
And yes, i made some types of mods, like modification on clouds, smoke visibility, new smokes for trains and more longer wreckage smokes, new QMB with more options, french localisation of the sound mod and much more.....

Why we did'nt have some options like smoke and visibility is clearly because at the beginning of the game, PCS can't run such options without falling on knees... it was a good choice of Oleg and i respect that...

Clearly, i respect Oleg and his work..... but, i found some things really strange , like in weapons and.... yes, i am also tweaking weapons.... is it so bad that italians have correct machine guns or 13.2 MG on IAR instead MG131 ? Ask romanian peoples

So, i know (as many people said to me) that only the .50 are to weak i received many mps to say me that the only prob in the sim was the weakness of .50 but, dont touch other weapons........ pathetic for me.
Italian or romanian weapons, by example are clearly widly undermodeled. Not impressions..... just facts and numbers i can see.

So, discuss is impossible here , enough flameware......
I tried to discuss at AAA and.... nothing was really clear, only the clear will of MrJolly to no accept DM/FM/Weapons modding.... so as said as AAA, accept or leave..... i did'nt agree, i leaved.

But, yes, i will continue, diffuse my mods, never for DM or FM, just for weapons, but not only... i will try to repaint some pits, like IAR.... but, don't be affraid, breda are allways much weaker than .50, just more accurate.

Italians pilots can now shoot allied planes like in real life. No more, no less. .50 have now more API... better for pacific, harder for western front. to shoot down and flame foe planes. Where is the problem ? Yak can now suffering dammage by 13.2 MG, is it a so great crime ? only red can win ?

One more time, only modding weapons trying to have more accuracy.... it is my crime, i am here, fire at will...

BTW, i think that the greatest danger for all is to hide all is not declared politcally correct.... this way , has nobody any view or control on what is done..... your force modders like me to be "underground"...... bad thing IMHO.

You will never know what we are doing and for this reason, you just have to be affraid and it maintain suspicion , for all.... that will kill the community, not the mods. Here is the shame. Hidding things are the best way to suspicion and ...... silent modders that will cheating.... not my way, but i am not alone. What i can do with weapons is really simple to do. The difference is so tiny, that i am pretty sure some of you have allready been shot down by modded weapons, and you saw surely nothing.....

ANd BTW, yes, i allready modified a flightmodel.... it was surely the greatest cheat in the net...... i put LI-2 FM on C47....... just, LI2 has no prob with COG as C47 have.... Wow, what a cheat

Over and out for me.

I have nothing to fire.... you are doing your thing man.. more power to you.. This is what I had to say about you...

Bear in mind that the same guys who I quoted in that post a few pages back from the AAA site are not solely AAA members just as I am not a "UBI" guy.. I hit SHQ, SOH, Frugals,AAA,here... While I see no point in being hostile to those who prefer to use mods since many whom I know have nothing but the enjoyment of the sim at the heart as to why theychose to use mods, that does not change the fact that there are others who either think that 1C got it wrong and they know better... they can "fix" it.. and they aren't all at AAA, or they just want to take it to the max... in fact.. the two guys that I quoted said as much in their post that was deleted at AAA. There are other sites... other modders that we don't even know about, and those guys have no qualms at all about altering FMs, DMs, or any part of the sim that they can figure out.

Nothing to fire at. Just the facts. I still think however, whether or not you think you are fixing things or regardless to your intentions, and mind you, I don't know you well enough to qualify your intent.. that touching with the DMs,weapons or FMs is a slippery slope and one that totally removes any prospect whatsoever of fair play in a competitive venue where mods are allowed. I can't stop you, I refuse to debate with you, and I certainly am in no opinion to judge YOU.. but I think that my time in this sim, simming in general gives me the rioght to my opinion. I have found that the 50s in this sim are great... Personally I think the problem is not the 50s.. otherwise the 50s on the P-40 would be the same as the 50s on the P-51... and they arent because the planes are different, but the problems can be addressed not by modding the FMs but by changing the way you fly. Klingstroem proved that with is tips on flying the P-51. You say that some of us habve been shot down by modded weapons... but if one h=guy has modded weapons and the other guy does not, can you NOT see where that would be a problem? You and all the other modders are going to do what you want.. and no arguing on my part or anyone elses will change that, neither will my beating you and everyone else upside the head with gripes about the state of affairs at every turn. It is what it is. But I will not let you and all the other modders pi$$ on the sim and call it rain. Hacking the sim has ruined any chance of fair and truly competitive online play. FACT. Does that mean that you or any of the other modders are "bad people" or are cheaters? From my point of view... of course not... and again.. I don't know any of you well enough to judge you or your intent but the fact still remains that hacking the sim has done what it has done... You can defend it, justify it, whatever... but it still doesn't change the facts... just as those who are opposed to the hacks that made modding possible can complain and name call and point fingers till the cows come home... it still doesnt change the FACTs.. the sim is hacked. Now will that stop me from enjoying the sim? Nope.... because for me much of my enjoyment of the sim is offline and the online part has the added element of the great guys from the 99th that I fly with every time I get online and all those who come into our coops or whose coops we enter... in addition to this still great, still awesome, still the BEST D@MN WWII SIM ON THE MARKET flight sim.

So the bottom line is ... don't try to drag me into some debate... I wont bite... the sim is hacked, for the guys who hate it , it sucks... the guys who hacked it ruined the possibilities for true competition online.. for them THAT sucks, and they know it that's why they keep defending themselves... get over it. If you guys are truly men of honor and you truly respect Oleg and his work, then you all will do your best to keep it as pristine as possible.... and try to do your part to make sure that this sim doesn't go the way of every other sim that "benefitted" from being moddable. Don't let that happen to this sim.. and it is truly up to all of you because I don't mod... so where the mods go I have no control over.

And this whole offline online debate is just BS. See the above. The guys who hacked the sim ruined it for any kind of serious online competitive play. So the guys who are gung ho about the mods just need to accept that, stop defending it because it is indefensible, as indefensible as the fact that the SIM IS HACKED is fixable by debate from the anti mod crowd. So GET OVER IT and move on. That whole offline majority enslaved to the will of the tyrannical onliners is just pure unadulterated BULL$HIT. Don't try to justify this with that. At this point as I have been saying, why justify anything..... THE SIM IS HACKED. Like Kelly says.... the things that the anti modders feared will come to pass... and things will continue to go downhill. The only way for this to not happen is if 1C steps in, and even then it will be just a matter of time, or if the community of modders themselves remember the sim the claim to have so much respect for, and try to foster the right attitude. Human nature and history has shown that that dream is .... suspect in the least.

[Billfish]

Not at all and you can "misread" into what I say whatever you want, yet the point still stands........

"As far as taking a risk of having ones play disrupted, onliners are the only ones taking that risk"....

No one cares whether or not an offliner uses mods, or hacks their planes to X-wing fighters for that matter......Their sim, they're hurting no one, so what.......Yet it's all to easy for an offliner to say "roll out the mods mild to wild, no one gets cheated" as it does not affect them.

It does onliners only.....and it is that group which can have their play ruined by irresponsible modding generating unfair unable to be detected mods, and aiding those select few that WILL cheat......

So yes, as to modding affecting play for the negative, only onliners the "5%" you all pressed for have justification in stating applicable opinions on.

and if you don't understand that basic concept at this point, then I can't explain it further. Just how it is.

K2

[jasonbirder]

anyone claiming to NOT be an onliner instantly whether they realize it or not just devalued their opinions

you may have an opinion. Sadly however it doesn't count

you may have an opinion, yet to the online community it doesn't count

ONLY online players are affected, and therefor have a valid opinion

you have yourself, excluded yourself from having a valuable opinion

I await the valid 5% to discuss the issue

Pretty much says it all really doesn't it!
In essence I concede that I am in the minority, but am arrogant enough to believe that anyones opinion which differs from my own can be dismissed as unimportant...