Bug 174 on 12lbs boost. Review please.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

I wouldn't be surprised if Pips would have found the same papers, but had an access to a more complete trail of papers, than what is Glider/lane has been willing to disclose to us. Nota bene that Pips shared his findings some 8 years ago, well before Glider had seen these documents himself.

.

I do get a little bored with these constant snipes at what I have and haven't disclosed without anything to support them.

I repeat (for I think the third) time, you can always ask for a copy and prove me wrong. On the other hand if Pips had found the papers I found he wouldn't have made his claim.

I have asked you to supply any evidence to support any one (note not all) of the claims he made. For example the May meeting of the War Cabinet that was supossed to have started the whole thing off by stopping the roll out and the fuel shortage he commented on.

The only person who hasn't provided any evidence, or even a statment on what you believe the position to be is you. You only overstate the importance of one document that I left in to maintain the document trail

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Glider

I do get a little bored with these constant snipes at what I have and haven't disclosed without anything to support them.

I repeat (for I think the third) time, you can always ask for a copy and prove me wrong.

Well can we see the contents of AIR documents or not? We have been asking for them for three years, you REFUSE to show the whole document.

That's a fact David.

On the other hand if Pips had found the papers I found he wouldn't have made his claim.

Its your opinion, not Pips. You certainly like to misrepresent other people's positions.

I have asked you to supply any evidence to support any one (note not all) of the claims he made. For example the May meeting of the War Cabinet that was supossed to have started the whole thing off by stopping the roll out and the fuel shortage he commented on.

Dear David, you are pretending again that you have not been answered on that multiple times. I have made it very clear to you that the above is based on the documents Pips has found.

Asking me to provide the papers Pips found in Australia was silly in the first place, pretending I am refusing to supply the papers I have nothing to do with for the umpteenth time is dishonest.

The only person who hasn't provided any evidence, or even a statment on what you believe the position to be is you.

Yada-yada-yada, the usual BS, repeated forever in Goebbels style. I have made my position very clear, several times. It seems redundant to repeat it again, since your standard operational procedure in the past was, and is ever since, to wait a few days and lie again that nothing was provided, not even the position was made clear etc.

All what you have done yourself so far is keep making the same statements, ignore other's position and even your very own papers, and then lie that they have supplied nothing and did not make their position clear. Its a petty attitude.

You only overstate the importance of one document that I left in to maintain the document trail

Nope. All documents Pips and you have found notes that only select converted in May 1940. You simply ignore what is in your own papers.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Well can we see the contents of AIR documents or not? We have been asking for them for three years, you REFUSE to show the whole document.

That's a fact David.

I have shown everything that I have. I repeat its easy for you to obtain copies of the papers. Find that I have witheld anything of importance (and I will let the mods decide) and I will apologise to one and all and withdraw from the forum. If you repeat these allagations without support then I expect you to apologise and withdraw from the forum.
Call my bluff

Its your opinion, not Pips. You certainly like to misrepresent other people's positions.

Give one example to support this statement?

Dear David, you are pretending again that you have not been answered on that multiple times. I have made it very clear to you that the above is based on the documents Pips has found.

No one has seen the papers that Pips is supposed to have found, not even you. If it was that easy for him then something would have appeared.

Asking me to provide the papers Pips found in Australia was silly in the first place, pretending I am refusing to supply the papers I have nothing to do with for the umpteenth time is dishonest.

Then all you have is Pips unsupported posting.
You have
a) No supporting information that there was s fuel shortage
b) No mention in the Cabinet War papers for May saying that the roll out was halted.

It is by definition an unsupported posting

Yada-yada-yada, the usual BS, repeated forever in Goebbels style. I have made my position very clear, several times. It seems redundant to repeat it again, since your standard operational procedure in the past was, and is ever since, to wait a few days and lie again that nothing was provided, not even the position was made clear etc.

Then prove my lie (another accusation I note) find where you stated your belief. The only ones that I know of are your statement re the use of 100 Octane in France, and a couple of years ago a statement that you supported Pips view that approx 145 fighters were converted.
If you believe that its the 16 + 2 then say so and I will never ask the question again, ever. But I will ask how you support that view.

All what you have done yourself so far is keep making the same statements, ignore other's position and even your very own papers, and then lie that they have supplied nothing and did not make their position clear. Its a petty attitude.

Again prove my lie, show me what you have supplied and my very own papers. We have a different view on what certain squadrons means, that I agree but the paper trail I believe supports my view and I ham always happy to stand by it.

You keep making these statements and its time to support them

[pstyle]

Originally Posted by Glider

I have shown everything that I have. I repeat its easy for you to obtain copies of the papers. Find that I have witheld anything of importance (and I will let the mods decide) and I will apologise to one and all and withdraw from the forum. If you repeat these allagations without support then I expect you to apologise and withdraw from the forum.

Glider, (this is a bit of a tangent)
Did you order the papers from the archives at Kew?
I live not far from there and was going to order some docs. Approximately how much do the documents cost?

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

IMHO the 'Pips papers' fit in well with the current trail of evidence. After all the May papers as you noted tell of the issue of 100 octane to the selected stations (which is what Pips is saying, though he quantyfies it at 25%).

He notes that the situation eased in August with the arrival of the first Middle East fuel shipsments. This is again reflected in the August 7 memo posted which notes 100 octane is now cleared for all operational aircraft.

The fuel issues again show the issues increased in the automn, especially end of September which is again line with the 'Pips paper' and Pips statements.

I wouldn't be surprised if Pips would have found the same papers, but had an access to a more complete trail of papers, than what is Glider/lane has been willing to disclose to us.

Pips is a member of this forum and has been contacted here and elsewhere to comment on these papers, but has not done so, so whatever Kurfurst thinks Pips may have found is meaningless hearsay, as are the "papers" themselves, which are so full of flawed logic and nonsense reasoning that they are worthless anyway. As it is Kurfurst cited Pips' "summary" verbatim in the Feature # 174 Report only to have it deleted, so the managers don't consider a summary from an old thread in a locked members only forum to be evidence of anything, nor should anyone else. They might be relevant in Kurfurst's HO but nobody else shares that HO - including Pips.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Glider

I have shown everything that I have. I repeat its easy for you to obtain copies of the papers. Find that I have witheld anything of importance (and I will let the mods decide) and I will apologise to one and all and withdraw from the forum. If you repeat these allagations without support then I expect you to apologise and withdraw from the forum.
Call my bluff


Give one example to support this statement?


No one has seen the papers that Pips is supposed to have found, not even you. If it was that easy for him then something would have appeared.
Then all you have is Pips unsupported posting.
You have
a) No supporting information that there was s fuel shortage
b) No mention in the Cabinet War papers for May saying that the roll out was halted.

It is by definition an unsupported posting



Then prove my lie (another accusation I note) find where you stated your belief. The only ones that I know of are your statement re the use of 100 Octane in France, and a couple of years ago a statement that you supported Pips view that approx 145 fighters were converted.
If you believe that its the 16 + 2 then say so and I will never ask the question again, ever. But I will ask how you support that view.



Again prove my lie, show me what you have supplied and my very own papers. We have a different view on what certain squadrons means, that I agree but the paper trail I believe supports my view and I ham always happy to stand by it.

You keep making these statements and its time to support them

I don't care for your rubbish. The next time you lie about my or other people's posts or position they have taken, the proper course of action shall be taken. You refuse to disclose the documents in full, end of story.

Also please take note for the future that I have decided not to waste any more time on replying to your posts.

[Kurfürst]

From ANA.

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

I don't care for your rubbish. The next time you lie about my or other people's posts or position they have taken, the proper course of action shall be taken. You refuse to disclose the documents in full, end of story.

Also please take note for the future that I have decided not to waste any more time on replying to your posts.

Everyone to the lifeboats.

[Kurfürst]

Proposals to secure sufficient 100 octane supplies.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

I don't care for your rubbish. The next time you lie about my or other people's posts or position they have taken, the proper course of action shall be taken. You refuse to disclose the documents in full, end of story.

Also please take note for the future that I have decided not to waste any more time on replying to your posts.

You may have replied to my posts but you have rarely awnsered any questions or supported your statements.

This is another example of you throwing demeaning comments around and when asked to support, substantiate or provide examples, you run and hide. Sadly I expected nothing less.

I repeat, if you think that I have lied, provide examples that satisfy the Mods who are independent, and I will leave the Forum for good. Its a simple, clear statement I cannot and will not hide from.

Your inability to do this will speak volumes.

PS If Publishing some pre war papers that show that the RAF had plans to equip approx 2,500 front line aircraft with 100 octane around the end of 1940 is the best you can do then I feel secure