Bug 174 on 12lbs boost. Review please.

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Glider

I do get a little bored with these constant snipes at what I have and haven't disclosed without anything to support them.

I repeat (for I think the third) time, you can always ask for a copy and prove me wrong.

Well can we see the contents of AIR documents or not? We have been asking for them for three years, you REFUSE to show the whole document.

That's a fact David.

On the other hand if Pips had found the papers I found he wouldn't have made his claim.

Its your opinion, not Pips. You certainly like to misrepresent other people's positions.

I have asked you to supply any evidence to support any one (note not all) of the claims he made. For example the May meeting of the War Cabinet that was supossed to have started the whole thing off by stopping the roll out and the fuel shortage he commented on.

Dear David, you are pretending again that you have not been answered on that multiple times. I have made it very clear to you that the above is based on the documents Pips has found.

Asking me to provide the papers Pips found in Australia was silly in the first place, pretending I am refusing to supply the papers I have nothing to do with for the umpteenth time is dishonest.

The only person who hasn't provided any evidence, or even a statment on what you believe the position to be is you.

Yada-yada-yada, the usual BS, repeated forever in Goebbels style. I have made my position very clear, several times. It seems redundant to repeat it again, since your standard operational procedure in the past was, and is ever since, to wait a few days and lie again that nothing was provided, not even the position was made clear etc.

All what you have done yourself so far is keep making the same statements, ignore other's position and even your very own papers, and then lie that they have supplied nothing and did not make their position clear. Its a petty attitude.

You only overstate the importance of one document that I left in to maintain the document trail

Nope. All documents Pips and you have found notes that only select converted in May 1940. You simply ignore what is in your own papers.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Well can we see the contents of AIR documents or not? We have been asking for them for three years, you REFUSE to show the whole document.

That's a fact David.

I have shown everything that I have. I repeat its easy for you to obtain copies of the papers. Find that I have witheld anything of importance (and I will let the mods decide) and I will apologise to one and all and withdraw from the forum. If you repeat these allagations without support then I expect you to apologise and withdraw from the forum.
Call my bluff

Its your opinion, not Pips. You certainly like to misrepresent other people's positions.

Give one example to support this statement?

Dear David, you are pretending again that you have not been answered on that multiple times. I have made it very clear to you that the above is based on the documents Pips has found.

No one has seen the papers that Pips is supposed to have found, not even you. If it was that easy for him then something would have appeared.

Asking me to provide the papers Pips found in Australia was silly in the first place, pretending I am refusing to supply the papers I have nothing to do with for the umpteenth time is dishonest.

Then all you have is Pips unsupported posting.
You have
a) No supporting information that there was s fuel shortage
b) No mention in the Cabinet War papers for May saying that the roll out was halted.

It is by definition an unsupported posting

Yada-yada-yada, the usual BS, repeated forever in Goebbels style. I have made my position very clear, several times. It seems redundant to repeat it again, since your standard operational procedure in the past was, and is ever since, to wait a few days and lie again that nothing was provided, not even the position was made clear etc.

Then prove my lie (another accusation I note) find where you stated your belief. The only ones that I know of are your statement re the use of 100 Octane in France, and a couple of years ago a statement that you supported Pips view that approx 145 fighters were converted.
If you believe that its the 16 + 2 then say so and I will never ask the question again, ever. But I will ask how you support that view.

All what you have done yourself so far is keep making the same statements, ignore other's position and even your very own papers, and then lie that they have supplied nothing and did not make their position clear. Its a petty attitude.

Again prove my lie, show me what you have supplied and my very own papers. We have a different view on what certain squadrons means, that I agree but the paper trail I believe supports my view and I ham always happy to stand by it.

You keep making these statements and its time to support them

[pstyle]

Originally Posted by Glider

I have shown everything that I have. I repeat its easy for you to obtain copies of the papers. Find that I have witheld anything of importance (and I will let the mods decide) and I will apologise to one and all and withdraw from the forum. If you repeat these allagations without support then I expect you to apologise and withdraw from the forum.

Glider, (this is a bit of a tangent)
Did you order the papers from the archives at Kew?
I live not far from there and was going to order some docs. Approximately how much do the documents cost?

[Glider]

Originally Posted by pstyle

Glider, (this is a bit of a tangent)
Did you order the papers from the archives at Kew?
I live not far from there and was going to order some docs. Approximately how much do the documents cost?

I went to the archives and looked at the files myself. As to the cost I don't know but the Oil Committee file is a big one with hundreds of pages so expect cost to be high. I just copied anything which mentioned 100 Octane, they discussed other things but those I left.

I suggest going yourself its a bit special and you can ask for almost anything. Also some things that cost such as downloads of combat reports to your home are free at the NA. You can take a camera in and photograph what you want so you don't have to copy everything out word for word. The first visit is a bit of a fag as you have to get your pass but its worth the effort.

I admit to getting a buzz out of holding the original documents. When this pips thing came up one of his claims was that the War Cabinet stopped the deployment of 100 Octane in May 1940. I went to the NA and was able to get hold of the original papers, and to just handle these original papers that were at the table with Churchill and the others does make it a bit special.
These are now free on line and the originals stored but its an example.

Its a short walk from Kew underground station and well signposted so thats my choice of getting there

[NZtyphoon]

Here's what Oil: A study of war-time policy and administration by D J Payton Smith (HMSO 1971 part of the official war series) says about 100 Octane fuel pre- war plans and the so-called supply problems alluded to by Pips:





"The pre-war activity had been based on the assumption that United States supplies would be denied to Britain in time of war. In the event, as was shown, they remained available."

"100 Octane came into general use during the Battle of Britain..." confirming the All Commands memo issued on 7 August.

"...there was NO anxiety in these early months of the war about the prospects of supply."

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Glider

I have shown everything that I have. I repeat its easy for you to obtain copies of the papers. Find that I have witheld anything of importance (and I will let the mods decide) and I will apologise to one and all and withdraw from the forum. If you repeat these allagations without support then I expect you to apologise and withdraw from the forum.
Call my bluff


Give one example to support this statement?


No one has seen the papers that Pips is supposed to have found, not even you. If it was that easy for him then something would have appeared.
Then all you have is Pips unsupported posting.
You have
a) No supporting information that there was s fuel shortage
b) No mention in the Cabinet War papers for May saying that the roll out was halted.

It is by definition an unsupported posting



Then prove my lie (another accusation I note) find where you stated your belief. The only ones that I know of are your statement re the use of 100 Octane in France, and a couple of years ago a statement that you supported Pips view that approx 145 fighters were converted.
If you believe that its the 16 + 2 then say so and I will never ask the question again, ever. But I will ask how you support that view.



Again prove my lie, show me what you have supplied and my very own papers. We have a different view on what certain squadrons means, that I agree but the paper trail I believe supports my view and I ham always happy to stand by it.

You keep making these statements and its time to support them

I don't care for your rubbish. The next time you lie about my or other people's posts or position they have taken, the proper course of action shall be taken. You refuse to disclose the documents in full, end of story.

Also please take note for the future that I have decided not to waste any more time on replying to your posts.

[Kurfürst]

From ANA.

[Kurfürst]

Proposals to secure sufficient 100 octane supplies.

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Proposals to secure sufficient 100 octane supplies.

What the hell do these documents from late 1938 have to do with the BofB?

[41Sqn_Banks]

Can all stop the bashing and the personal attack please?