how are these 109s turns 180 with out penalties?

[bw_wolverine]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Keller

Ok, I know the old saying "Never interrupt you're enemy when he's making a mistake" but in the interest of making things more challenging I’m going to offer some advice to the Red pilots flying on ATAG.
If you want to complete objectives you need to get together with your bomber pilots and tell them that they have to fly where the fighters will have the best chance of protecting them. I am constantly finding Blenheim pilots flying on the wave tops heading directly from their bases in a straight line towards their targets. Climb! Get those Blennys up to 3-4000m, cross the channel a long way to the East or West, and descend behind enemy lines.

I’ve flown a lot of bomber missions on ATAG, and I can count on one hand how many times I’ve been attacked by an enemy fighter before dropping my payload. Sure, my He-111 missions might take 45 to 75 minutes from takeoff to landing, but patience is a virtue. Don’t rush it guys, flying through the "trapezoid of terror" that goes from Littlestone to Ramsgate, across to Dunkirk then Wissant, in a bomber is sheer madness.

Time may be of the essence, but 3 unsuccessful missions straight through the belly of the beast is still worth less than one successful mission flying around all the action.

Exactly. I'd be quite happy to fly escort on missions like this. And now that I know SOMEONE is bringing a bomber across high, I'll be looking for you!

[ATAG_Snapper]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Keller

Ok, I know the old saying "Never interrupt you're enemy when he's making a mistake" but in the interest of making things more challenging I’m going to offer some advice to the Red pilots flying on ATAG.
If you want to complete objectives you need to get together with your bomber pilots and tell them that they have to fly where the fighters will have the best chance of protecting them. I am constantly finding Blenheim pilots flying on the wave tops heading directly from their bases in a straight line towards their targets. Climb! Get those Blennys up to 3-4000m, cross the channel a long way to the East or West, and descend behind enemy lines.

I’ve flown a lot of bomber missions on ATAG, and I can count on one hand how many times I’ve been attacked by an enemy fighter before dropping my payload. Sure, my He-111 missions might take 45 to 75 minutes from takeoff to landing, but patience is a virtue. Don’t rush it guys, flying through the "trapezoid of terror" that goes from Littlestone to Ramsgate, across to Dunkirk then Wissant, in a bomber is sheer madness.

Time may be of the essence, but 3 unsuccessful missions straight through the belly of the beast is still worth less than one successful mission flying around all the action.

Wise words.

[Bewolf]

Ah well, at least the forum is going to route again it should, FM battles

But to throw in my own two cents, I think a lot of red fliers should also keep a few points in mind here.

First of all, most flyers here have years of flying behind them, it's not like reality where only a handful of experten managed to survive, due to the nature of this game, everybody is a pro after a couple years.

Second, the 109 is one of those planes that only starts shining when flown by experts. If you know how to treat her I think every Spit or Hurricane will be in trouble, the difference won't be as pronounced as it is right now, but I personally don't even have a problem with Spit IIs as they are right now (and would have no problem seeing them included back into servers)

Third, in here the 109s are not tied to the bombers like back in those days, which was a huge problem for the german pilots. Not really historical correct in our servers, but something red will have to cope with.

Thus I doubt things will change dramatically when the FMs are corrected for both sides, really.

Just saying to those that think the Spit should rock due to historical legends.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Interesting thoughts, Bewolf, especially about the Spitfire IIa. I don't believe many Blue 109 pilots share your confidence! Just sayin'......

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

but I personally don't even have a problem with Spit IIs as they are right now

What's the secret?

[ATAG_Keller]

Originally Posted by bw_wolverine

...And now that I know SOMEONE is bringing a bomber across high, I'll be looking for you!

You'll never find me.

[FFCW_Urizen]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Keller

You'll never find me.

we will find you, we always will find you

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

What's the secret?

Roll rate, acceleration and given SpitII also means E4, firepower. Thus you will find that rolling scissors, for example, work really really fine

[Untamo]

S!

I mostly fly blue but have tested out the red planes as well. I can say that the CEM model of the 109 is a bit off. You can slam the throttle 100% at mission start (no warmup needed) and take it off only when going for landing .. And it never overheats too. Also, what little I have used it, WEP doesn't seem to effect the engine negatively either. Only thing that needs attention is the prop pitch.

On the other end of the scale, I think some planes are "overmodelled"(correct term?) in the CEM department, like the G50 and Blenheim. Very long warmups needed... So long that a 109 pilot has done a couple of sorties in the mean time ... Even the slightest variation from the optimal values seem to cause some failure in Blenny.

On the bombers always low issue... well I can say that I personally am an exception. Regardless of the bomber type (thusfar I have flown Blenheim, Ju88, Stuka, 110) I always come to the target area at about 4km and circle behind the target so I can dive towards friendly lines. Any lower, and I get shot by the reds that seem to mostly keep below 2km... Well, not in Stuka... reds get shot when I come with it ... Most Hurri and Spit pilots don't seem to know that it turns better than them.

[addman]

Originally Posted by Untamo

S!

I mostly fly blue but have tested out the red planes as well. I can say that the CEM model of the 109 is a bit off. You can slam the throttle 100% at mission start (no warmup needed) and take it off only when going for landing .. And it never overheats too. Also, what little I have used it, WEP doesn't seem to effect the engine negatively either. Only thing that needs attention is the prop pitch.

On the other end of the scale, I think some planes are "overmodelled"(correct term?) in the CEM department, like the G50 and Blenheim. Very long warmups needed... So long that a 109 pilot has done a couple of sorties in the mean time ... Even the slightest variation from the optimal values seem to cause some failure in Blenny.

On the bombers always low issue... well I can say that I personally am an exception. Regardless of the bomber type (thusfar I have flown Blenheim, Ju88, Stuka, 110) I always come to the target area at about 4km and circle behind the target so I can dive towards friendly lines. Any lower, and I get shot by the reds that seem to mostly keep below 2km... Well, not in Stuka... reds get shot when I come with it ... Most Hurri and Spit pilots don't seem to know that it turns better than them.

Well, radial engines HAS to warm up for quite some time before slamming yarn old throttle, so it's quite realistic that the G.50 takes time to get off the ground and also the Blennie.

Some people here said the red planes are the most "pick up and play" friendly but I find the 109/110 to be much easier to manage. Turn on fuel cock(s) start engine, slam throttle and you're in the air. The Blenheim, for example, is the total opposite, everything has to be done with care....lol! no, I slam the throttle on that one too once oil temp is over 30 degrees. Once you know the basics of the CEM it is almost as simple as old IL-2, don't overrev, keep temps in check, check ATA or boost so it's not too high for a protracted period of time etc. The hardest part though is when you are in a dogfight and have to start fiddling with the prop pitch back and forth, looking forward to the Fw-190 in that department or any post E version of the 109's, feeling sorry already for the red flyers in BoM when they try to fly a I-16 or a Lagg-3 with full CEM. I hope the I-16 pilots likes pumping landing gear lol!