The 'Great Debate' - Spitfire vs BF109

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Hello...

I knew you wouldnt do it if I wrote that. Now you hurt my feelings

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Bah.. I'm out...

+1

Me too.

Actually incredible. 70 years have past and people still debate this thing ...

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

I knew you wouldnt do it if I wrote that. Now you hurt my feelings

I knew you knew that if I knew you knew that I knew, then I knew I would.......wait......I knew that if you knew....no.....you...no....gimme a sec.....carry on chaps.

[arthursmedley]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

It's probably true, but only for the Hurricanes... since the main role of Spitfires was to engage the fighters, leaving the bombers to more stable and armed Hurricanes.

Very popular but historically inaccurate misconception. Squadrons were ordered to scramble and engage in accordance with their availability and their proximity to approaching enemy formations. Type of aircraft flown counted for nought in the summer of 1940.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

I knew you knew that if I knew you knew that I knew, then I knew I would.......wait......I knew that if you knew....no.....you...no....gimme a sec.....carry on chaps.

Of course you knew, your clever like that.

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Of course you knew, your clever like that.

as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University.

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

I don't want to search in the book for the exact quote... I thought you would be honest to report the right part, but probably I was wrong...

Anyway he states that he did it only to piss Goering off and he still preferred the 109...

Honestly, are you posting here in a serious way or really do you like to manipulate facts?


Bah.. I'm out...

I hope you were wearing your parachute...

Here's a longer quote:

The theme of fighter protection was chewed over again and again. Goering clearly represented the point of view of the bombers and demanded close and rigid protection. The bomber, he said, was more important than record bag figures. I tried to point out that the Me109 was superior in the attack and not so suitable for purely defensive purposes as the Spitfire, which, although a little slower, was much more manoeuvrable. He rejected my objection. We received many more harsh words. Finally, as his time ran short, he grew more amiable and asked what were the requirements for our squadrons. Moelders asked for a series of Me109's with more powerful engines. The request was granted. 'And you ?' Goering turned to me. I did not hesitate long. 'I should like an outfit of Spitfires for my group.' After blurting this out, I had rather a shock, for it was not really meant that way. Of course, fundamentally I preferred our Me109 to the Spitfire, but I was unbelievably vexed at the lack of understanding and the stubbornness with which the command gave us orders we could not execute - or only incompletely - as a result of many shortcomings for which we were not to blame. Such brazen-faced impudence made even Goering speechless. He stamped off, growling as he went."

Note that "group" implies that he actually asked for more than one squadron...

I actually posted this to show how any realistic assessment of Spitfire is always disputed by a select few, even when it comes from the Luftwaffe side.

[TomcatViP]

Do yo know that among the pilots present that day, nobody recall that story as it was found latter ?

As I already said above :

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Understand that Galland was a dignitary of the Nazi regime and as such might have needed to pleased the ear of the Allied public. Have you seen the vid when he did say that ? Hve a look, you'll understand what I mean.

This anecdote was debated by historian and among prime witnesses of that "scene" when asked the question replied that they don't remember G. saying that to RMG.

But once again and blablabla...

If you are able to do this with an enormous sense of relativity try to imagine the Raptor's pilots stating in front of the camera that they would ask Panetta to buy Flankers in China (J-11).

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fighte...ry?id=16294011

[Crumpp]

Me109 was superior in the attack and not so suitable for purely defensive purposes

IIRC, he was talking about OKL requirement the 109's fly alongside the bombers in visual range and the bombers cruise speeds.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

as cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University.

Isnt it, "as cunning as fox thats just graduated in cunning at oxford univeristy and recently been apointed professor of cunning at said university"?

But you know, thats eyewitness statements...