The 'Great Debate' - Spitfire vs BF109

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Inadmissible using Farbers logic, Galland wen't on to say it was out of frustration and had no bearing on how he rated the Spitfire but of course being a human recounting a tale from the past he obviously didn't know what he was speaking about and he probably really did wan't a squadron of Spitfires.

Hmm so we can also discount Gallands assement of the 109e/Spitfire as being "...not so suitable for purely defensive purposes as the Spitfire, which, although a little slower, was much more manoeuvrable..."

Since we all know that the Spitfire was somewhat faster...

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by arthursmedley

As we have seen, graphs and the interpretation of any data can be challenged because of the number of variables involved and whether the people producing these graphs were even aware of these variables.

Pilot, sorry, eyewitness accounts and memoirs are very often contemporaeneous to the events themselves and most were written if not during the war years then in their fairly immediate aftermath with logbooks and combat reports to back it up. Both RAF and LW accounts share a remarkable commonality in their fear of the bounce, the acceptance that most pilots shot down never saw their opponents and the acceptance that following an opponent round and round and round in a dogfight would invite a hail of lead from an unseen opportunist.

Arguments on every flight sim forum I've ever visited about aeroplane performance always degenerate into some "expert" denying the veracity of pilot accounts that differ from their own dearly held views because they know their graphs hold the real truth.

+1

However the graph like the memories applied sensibly in the correct ratio should be good enough. You can never please everyone.

We cant have it 100% accurate. Afterall we are all aces in the virtual world...

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by arthursmedley

Arguments on every flight sim forum I've ever visited about aeroplane performance always degenerate into some "expert" denying the veracity of pilot accounts that differ from their own dearly held views because they know their graphs hold the real truth.

+1!

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by arthursmedley

. Both RAF and LW accounts share a remarkable commonality in their fear of the bounce, the acceptance that most pilots shot down never saw their opponents and the acceptance that following an opponent round and round and round in a dogfight would invite a hail of lead from an unseen opportunist.

Very true, and the vast majority of RAF fighters were lost this way, as their primary task was to attack the bombers, thus leaving themselves open to being bounced, however this doesn't excuse Clod from poorly modelling the performance of RAF fighters.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by Seadog

OK, Galland states in his memoirs, The First and the Last, that he asked for an "...outfit of Spitfires, for his group..."

And what does he say after that paragraph? How does he end the issue?

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

And what does he say after that paragraph? How does he end the issue?

"...Such brazen-faced impudence made even Goering speechless. He stamped off, growling as he went..."

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by Seadog

"...Such brazen-faced impudence made even Goering speechless. He stamped off, growling as he went..."

Cue Bongodriver using my statement against it even though its not what I ment.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by Seadog

Very true, and the vast majority of RAF fighters were lost this way, as their primary task was to attack the bombers, thus leaving themselves open to being bounced, however this doesn't excuse Clod from poorly modelling the performance of RAF fighters.

It's probably true, but only for the Hurricanes... since the main role of Spitfires was to engage the fighters, leaving the bombers to more stable and armed Hurricanes.

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Cue Bongodriver using my statement against it even though its not what I ment.

Hello...

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by Seadog

"...Such brazen-faced impudence made even Goering speechless. He stamped off, growling as he went..."

I don't want to search in the book for the exact quote... I thought you would be honest to report the right part, but probably I was wrong...

Anyway he states that he did it only to piss Goering off and he still preferred the 109...

Honestly, are you posting here in a serious way or really do you like to manipulate facts?


Bah.. I'm out...