The Northrop Grumman Issue.

[tk471138]

Originally Posted by Xilon_x

Northrop-Grumman took legal action against Ubisoft over the unlicensed use of trademarks they own (specifically, "Grumman") on the Pacific Fighters box and packaging. This legal action was perfectly justified.

UbiSoft and Maddox games jointly settled out of court with Northrop-Grumman. However, Ubisoft provided very bad legal assistance to Oleg, regardless of what he has been led to believe and has said. It is obvious his limited english and complete unfamiliarity with the American legal system were both taken advantage of.

The settlement covered the unauthorized use of a Northrop-Grumman trademark. Perfectly reasonable.

Northrop-Grumman, however, took advantage of the situation to also advance their demands for licensing fees to depict WWII era material. This has no legal basis, despite what they may claim. This has been established in court.

Despite this, as they had Ubisoft and Maddox Games at their mercy, Northrop-Grumman also legally bound them to pay exhorbant licensing fees to use any aircraft (or other material) that Northrop-Grumman claimed intellectual ownership of. Ubisoft's legal representation to Oleg presented the situation inaccurately, convincing Oleg that he had no choice or hope but to accept their demands. Regardless of the previous legal veracity of their claims, Northrop-Grumman now DOES have the legal right to demand licensing from Oleg.

The final insult was that Ubisoft, who commited the original infringement (as they are responsible for product packaging, and thus the infringing text on the box), made Oleg pay Northrop-Grumman the settlement.

Heroes of the Pacific (the creators of which, IRGurus, I spoke to personally) and Blazing Aces both feature various 'disputed' aircraft because Ubisoft didn't screw up the box on those and because those developers happened to speak fluent English and thus could fend of Northrop-Grummans baseless claims. N-G did approach IRGurus (who made Heroes), but was rebuffed and did not make further demands.

The settlement also stipulated that the matter not be discussed publicly (since it obviously would show the true colors of two out of three parties involved), which is why any and all threads that bring this matter up are deleted.

The only group who benefitted were the lawyers of a multi-billion dollar defense contractor. A multi-million dollar global game publisher sidestepped the blame and the fine. Ultimately, a dedicated Russian development studio, many of those working on a project for them at the time, those peoples' immediate families, the project's fans, and legal precedent all suffered.

I know. I built the P-61. Kami had a finished B-29 interior. An underway TBF cockpit and a completely finished Yorktown carrier were yanked. Other content that was planned, in progress, or even finished--some of it expensive--was discarded. Some artists who had devoted extraordinary time and made significant personal sacrifices to contribute to Pacific Fighters were never compensated and almost didn't even get acknowledged.

All of which Northrop-Grumman and Ubisoft have demanded be kept secret.

I, however, am not going to take this anymore. This entire post will be permanently saved to another location. I will link to it whenever the subject is broached. If I am banned, I will make sure it is publicly known here that this is why.

Oleg was taken advantage of in a horrible way, by those who stood to lose nothing and who had no support for their demands. We owe him our efforts to correct that.

technically if oleg was misled in to signing a contract...or if he didnt understand the contract he was signing its null and void....

he should trash the contract....forget what some retarded greedy american company says...i know i could care less and I AM american....im certainly not going to let some company dictate the terms of my life and my freedom....

[tk471138]

Originally Posted by NukeItFromOrbit

Work for evil? I don't know whose lies you have been buying but that simply isn't true.

For the most part, Northrop-Grumman is a corporation like any other, meaning they will pull garbage like this and bother a smaller game developer over trademark related issues. I don't support this behavior in anyway, but unfortunately that is the state of business in most of the world.

Yet there are valid reasons for NG's continued existence and I'm sure many of their workers remember the legacy of Northrop and Grumman. Yes they make many systems the United States needs because one simple fact always remains true. Through use or obsolesce, old systems including aircraft, need to be replaced. Plus there are always new capabilities the US military (or foreign customers) hope to in order to counter new or existing threats. Technology is always advancing.

The defense industry in the United States has been consolidated too much for my liking, and I honestly don't have much respect for the higher-level management of NG or most major corporations, defense-related or otherwise, but you're completely in the wrong to disrespect those workers and engineers.

NG is part of the military industrial complex ( you know the same thing that president Roosevelt warned us about) thus its evil......

[tk471138]

Originally Posted by NukeItFromOrbit

You still haven't responded to any of my points. NG isn't going around starting wars, they're simply a corporation like any other, interested in business and making money. As I've said, they way they pushed around 1C here was completely wrong, but major companies fire similar trademark related lawsuits all the time. Yes it sucks, but there's nothing we can do about it. Now, if Ubisoft had given 1C some halfway decent support, this issue could have been worked out in a manner that would have allowed us to have all of these aircraft.

I don't care what you think of Northrop's CEOs or lawyers, but what's your problem with the average worker? As someone who works for a small firm manufacturing engine components, I'd be damned pleased if I ended up working for NG someday.

We can't keep flying B-52s and F-15s forever. There are many, many things in America's military due to be phased out in the coming years. Having such industry here in the United States sure beats having to import everything or eventually letting our military degrade to third-world status. I just wish there hadn't been so much consolidation over the years. It wasn't that long ago when McDonnell Douglas, Grumman, North American/Rockwell International, Vought, and Republic/Fairchild were all their own companies.

you are nieve clearly you didnt listen to the president (which a user kindly linked up for you)

he spoke of these corporations INFLUENCING policy which they DO...its that easy guy...their business is war...war is evil...

[CWMV]

Don't be silly, war and conflict are the engine of human technological and societal evolution.
However detestable it may be (believe me, no one knows this better than I), it is necessary and natural for man to have conflict. It is the way of the natural world.
Now don't be mad that some are better at it than others.

[Viking]

And now we see CoD turning east towards Moscow. Will it ever turn west again?
I for one think not.

Viking

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by tk471138

i guess i should follow all the laws of other countries too...

That's the plan. Copyright first, the rest to follow. Heard of ACTA?

[proton45]

Originally Posted by Viking

And now we see CoD turning east towards Moscow. Will it ever turn west again?
I for one think not.

Viking

somebody's bored...lol

[Viking]

Originally Posted by proton45

somebody's bored...lol

No, I simply cannot see how CoD is to expand to theaters of war in the Pacific etc if it is impossible to make images of the historical hardware.

So now we will most probably get Moscow and East front first and then....?

[tk471138]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

That's the plan. Copyright first, the rest to follow. Heard of ACTA?

sorry international law does not apply to me....the constitution apply to me not some garbage treaty that the federal government signs it self into...i could care less for international law that seeks to undermine the constitutional rights of the citizens of the united states and natural rights of those in the rest of the world...no one is getting hurt in the action of IL2 being able to use certain planes...they are pieces of ART...how about every time you take a picture a certain object should you now owe the creator....say you are at a plane show, and you take a picture of a certain plane...should you now owe the manufacture money...and even then some ridiculous amount....

pretty soon every time you upload on you tube some clip of some tv show or music its going to be taken down or even worse you will be arrested and given some crazy fine....thats where this is headed...

[Asheshouse]

I believe that the original problem was not the creation of an "artwork" representing an NG aircraft, it was the use of the Grumman name on the box artwork without permission which caused the principal problem.

TBM-3 Avenger --- ok

Grumman Avenger --- not ok



Whatever the original reasons it was all overtaken by a separate wide ranging agreement which went way beyond normal copyright protection laws.