P51D v 109K in BoP

[Soviet Ace]

Originally Posted by Vulcan607

Er you missed the bit where Britain and the USSR were allies so this situation wouldnt occour. But if it did then R.J. Mitchels eliptical winged wonder would have won.
All in the name of fun.

Oh yeah..... But if it did occur, then I'm sure that a Mr. Alexander Nikolaevich Yakovlev's incredible rolling and turning planes, would have won. Eliptical wings, put to much drag on a plan trying to roll and turn fast/hard. But short and skinny wings, do just the trick.

Fun, fun, fun

[Vulcan607]

Originally Posted by Soviet Ace

Oh yeah..... But if it did occur, then I'm sure that a Mr. Alexander Nikolaevich Yakovlev's incredible rolling and turning planes, would have won. Eliptical wings, put to much drag on a plan trying to roll and turn fast/hard. But short and skinny wings, do just the trick.

Fun, fun, fun

Surely at a higher altitude the lack of wing area and therefore lift the yaks would be a sitting soviet ducky.

Fun Fun Fun

[Soviet Ace]

Originally Posted by Vulcan607

Surely at a higher altitude the lack of wing area and therefore lift the yaks would be a sitting soviet ducky.

Fun Fun Fun

Ah, but no Soviet pilot would be dumb enough to fly at a higher altitude than their usual preference of 10,000ft (whatever it is in kilometers as well.) Usually you'd have a hard time finding a Yak at 15,000ft or 20,000.

Anyway, I gotta get back. Challenge you later. LOL

[Vulcan607]

Originally Posted by Soviet Ace

Ah, but no Soviet pilot would be dumb enough to fly at a higher altitude than their usual preference of 10,000ft (whatever it is in kilometers as well.) Usually you'd have a hard time finding a Yak at 15,000ft or 20,000.

Anyway, I gotta get back. Challenge you later. LOL

Ah you never know im sure there must have been some who did.
Ok i look forward to it.

[FOZ_1983]

HAHAHAHA, i love this forum!!

Soviet, do you remember that little "story" we started off, with the yak being over england and meeting the hurricanes? then turning into all out war? haha.

Between us all we talk some shit.

[Soviet Ace]

Originally Posted by FOZ_1983

HAHAHAHA, i love this forum!!

Soviet, do you remember that little "story" we started off, with the yak being over england and meeting the hurricanes? then turning into all out war? haha.

Between us all we talk some shit.

As long as it's friendly, and no one starts getting their feelings hurt. It's all in fun. And of course I remember, the Yaks won because of superior Soviet numbers, but then it all went to hell because America dropped a nuke. lol

[FOZ_1983]

Originally Posted by Soviet Ace

As long as it's friendly, and no one starts getting their feelings hurt. It's all in fun. And of course I remember, the Yaks won because of superior Soviet numbers, but then it all went to hell because America dropped a nuke. lol

haha yeah thats the one! damn yanks eh!!

[Voyager]

I was of an understanding that it wasn't so much that the Spitfire wings were elliptical, as it was that they were very bendy compared to most high speed fighters of the time. The P-47 has the same elliptical platform, yet it has exceptionally rigid wings, and has high roll authority at most speeds. Until the P-51 came out it was the fastest rolling USAAF fighter*.

On the subject of a hypothetical war between Britain/US vrs the Soviet Union (which could easily have happened if not for the Bomb), I suspect there would have been two major air theaters so to speak. One of them would have been the ground war in Eastern Europe, which would have been dominated by low level ground attack, and the Siberian campaign(s), which would have been dominated by high altitude strategic bombing targeted against the Soviet production centers. Thinking about it, there would probably be a similar campaign against their oil production centers as well, but I don't really remember where those were.

I expect the Spitfire would only see action in the ground war side, simply due to its range issues, so yes, Soviet Ace is probably right that the spits would be mixing it up low with the Russian fighters.

Over in the Siberian front, it would be P-51's and B-29's at 8-10km. The only VVS fighters with good performance at that altitude are the MiG-9, the Yak-15 (which I'm a bit skeptical of), and the Yak-3 VK-107. The MiG-9 has the firepower to handle B-29's, with the gun gas ingestion problem fixed. The Yak-3 VK-107 really doesn't, and the Yak-15 is light on the firepower too. I think a lot of it would come down to how quickly the Soviets could field the MiG-9 in large numbers.

The ground war would be a meat grinder, more so if the bombing campaign couldn't disable soviet production capacity, and, since it would have required the nonexistence of the bomb, would have meant a land invasion of Japan had been attempted, and had succeeded, which would have sapped the blazes out of any force that had participated in it. I don't even want to guess how that would turn out.

The upshot of all of this is, if the Spit was engaging Yaks, it would of necessity be at low altitude, since its range would limit it to supporting either the ground front, or depending against Soviet advances. All the high altitude fun would be over places like Siberia. Spits can't reach.

Harry Voyager

[Soviet Ace]

ONLY ONE MORE HOUR UNTIL I'M OUT OF THIS HELL HOLE OF A JOB!!!

Anyway, I like that idea you have Voyager. But there's one problem. The P-51s would probably be reverted to some either low level ground attacks or maybe some light bomber escort. But the main US fighter, would probably end up being the P-80 Shooting Star since it was the US variant to combat the Me262 if the war had lasted longer.

And the Yak-15 probably would have been put into major production, if something like this hypothesis had occurred, because at the time it was the only productive Soviet jet to be airborne. Then the MiG-15 would have probably been rushed into production faster, and replaced the unstable Yak-15 quick enough because the layer Yak-9s would be the fighters against Spitfires, and Mustangs (or whatever) while the MiG-15s would be used to combat the bombers, and P-80 Shooting Stars which wouldn't be much of a match against the MiG-15. But the air battles would be interesting to see. IF only Il-2:1946 had MiG-15s and P-80s in it. That would be SWEET.

Also, I think the oil fields your thinking of, are the oil fields at Baku. Which Hitler was going for during WW2.

[Vulcan607]

Originally Posted by Soviet Ace

ONLY ONE MORE HOUR UNTIL I'M OUT OF THIS HELL HOLE OF A JOB!!!

Anyway, I like that idea you have Voyager. But there's one problem. The P-51s would probably be reverted to some either low level ground attacks or maybe some light bomber escort. But the main US fighter, would probably end up being the P-80 Shooting Star since it was the US variant to combat the Me262 if the war had lasted longer.

And the Yak-15 probably would have been put into major production, if something like this hypothesis had occurred, because at the time it was the only productive Soviet jet to be airborne. Then the MiG-15 would have probably been rushed into production faster, and replaced the unstable Yak-15 quick enough because the layer Yak-9s would be the fighters against Spitfires, and Mustangs (or whatever) while the MiG-15s would be used to combat the bombers, and P-80 Shooting Stars which wouldn't be much of a match against the MiG-15. But the air battles would be interesting to see. IF only Il-2:1946 had MiG-15s and P-80s in it. That would be SWEET.

Also, I think the oil fields your thinking of, are the oil fields at Baku. Which Hitler was going for during WW2.

Why does nobody ever mention the British Jets of Mr Whittle!