Friday 2011-02-04 Dev. update and Discussion

[swiss]

edit:

Why don't you use your 25xx resolution on the screen of a movie theater, your pixel will have the size of a pack cigs(CHEATING!).
There is no way to determine who you display the game it within the software.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by swiss

I cant go higher than 1680 or lower than 800.

if you cant 1/2 your resolution to compare how the il2 aircraft dot doubles in size,, you should be able to at least notice that with the lower resolution the larger pixels show a larger il2 aircraft "dot" on your screen now :]

that is the exact principle at work, and it really shouldnt be the case in 2011 with the next gen sim

btw, i just noticed that with the monitor size you are using this probably means it is a 6 bit colour monitor (TN technology based), rather then most other lcd's which are normally 8- bit color (and MVA/PVA or IPS technology). the people who complain the least about il2 distant aircraft visibility are oddly enough often people with inferior monitors (dont mean to diss your hardware there). because these 6 bit monitors have significantly more problems displaying shades of grey, they constantly flip between several states of grey in a more noticable transition (compared to the smooth gradient on an 8 bit monitor), with TN based monitors this is known to add a slight "glitter" effect to the grey/black pixels it is trying to display (and this makes these 2/4 pixels representing a distant il2 aircraft stand out more, particularly if it is a moving object against a differently colored background, like green tree foliage or snow etc)

didnt mean to go all technical in minor detail, but i can post some illustrations about this known effect on 6 bit monitors later if interested

for now, just notice how the pixel size has increased with the lower resolution, making the 2/4 pixel object physically larger and easier to see on screen (btw my earlier screenshots posted were taken in 4.08 iirc). i havnt noticed anybody commenting the dot's had changed to 2 pixels since then, but it is possible (dot visibility has not increased since then, if anything worsened, so i havnt looked at it any closer since). the argument is still exactly the same however, 1/2 your resolution and the "il2 dot" is 2x the size, giving you a clear advantage online in a competitive environment (if all else is equal)

[swiss]

Originally Posted by zapatista

if you cant 1/2 your resolution to compare how the il2 aircraft dot doubles in size,, you should be able to at least notice that with the lower resolution the larger pixels show a larger il2 aircraft "dot" on your screen now :]

that is the exact principle at work, and it really shouldnt be the case in 2011 with the next gen sim

the argument is still exactly the same however, 1/2 your resolution and the "il2 dot" is 2x the size, giving you a clear advantage online in a competitive environment (if all else is equal)

Again: What if someone uses a beamer? He will have a 100" screen, huge pixels.
Cheating, right?

giving you a clear advantage, if all else is equal

It will never be fair - ever.
Unless Oleg sells some standard systems too and locks out everything else.

I recently noticed you can exploit the fact some ppl play with crappy GPUs.
When they are close on your tail, fly low over the water surface and fire into the sea like there's no tomorrow.
In case he really has an old card, odds are he will get a sideshow when flying through the fountains.


You see everything is different.
GPUs, screensizes and and resolutions, internet connection etcpp.

there is however an even bigger problem then that. these little 4 pixel dots still dont accurately represent what most real ww2 fighter pilots could/would see from their cockpits ! if il2/BoB is claiming to be a simulator then it is critical in my opinion this most important issue has a high priority (and oleg in the last few years has answered positively he is aware of this problem and is trying to correct it for BoB/il2).

Are you seriously saying the size of a pixel, in relation to displayed distance in game, vs reality is wrong?
You had to consult an astrophysicist to notice?

This is absolutely of the highest priority!
How could anyone possibly enjoy the GAME with such a flaw???

Maybe you should consider moving, a real simulator is not going to fit on your desk.



6bit/8bit:
I have no idea what your talking about.
In the settings menu it says something about true color, 32bit.

[combatdudePL]

Zapatista thanks for posting You last informations (especially screenshots) its reveal the essence of the issue - my English is too weak to describe it so well.

[Blackdog_kt]

What he says is that some monitors don't have the capability of displaying all the colors at the same time, so they flip the pixels in question between color A and color B to give the illusion of color C. Hope it helps

[Kikuchiyo]

Zapa if you're really that hung up on dots quit playing online. This is a moot issue that no one on earth can do anything about. Way to many variables, and continuing to beat the dead horse will do nothing to make the problem go away. Every game where there is competition there will be people that will do unscrupulous things in game to make their small lives feel more important.

Originally Posted by swiss

I can only talk for myself, but the only reason for dumping all that cash into peripherals for a game is to get an (unfair as zappa thinks) edge over the others.
It's just like real war - better equipment wins(usually).

You feel you get an advantage by using a 60" screen @800*600 - go for it.

I realize this, but it seems lost on the gentleman that it's not so much resolution as screen size that is the issue. He is continuing to harp on something that can't be helped.

[KG26_Alpha]

Stuka LOD 2/3

With a resolution of 800x600 or lower these are like flying bricks with lower settings.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Kikuchiyo

Zappa if you're really that hung up on dots quite playing online. This is a moot issue that no one on earth can do anything about. Way to many variables, and continuing to beat the dead horse will do nothing to make the problem go away. Every game where there is competition there will be people that will do unscrupulous things in game to make their small lives feel more important.

I can only talk for myself, but the only reason for dumping all that cash into peripherals for a game is to get an (unfair as zappa thinks) edge over the others.
It's just like real war - better equipment wins(usually).

You feel you get an advantage by using a 60" screen @800*600 - go for it.

[philip.ed]

Please could you start a seperate topic on this? I keep coming back to this topic expecting a different discussion. Don't get me wrong, it's very interesting, but there's such a wealth of information here, it'd be sad to see it get lost once a new update comes.
I have to say, I am marvelling at Zaps research into this! top notch stuff.

[flyingblind]

I find the discussions on the effect of screen resolutions on the ability to spot planes in game are all very interesting. Personally I would far rather have the highest resolution possible (native res) simply because of the enjoyment of having better, more realistice scenery and planes especially when it comes to making positive ID before firing.
Once LODs kick in I have always found it quite possible to spot a plane against a ground background because at higher resolutions and with a correctly adjusted screen there is noticable contrast between plane and background, even forests.
The problem seems to be a natural desire for people to have every edge they can get or at least not to be disadvantaged and so they want to be able to spot the enemy at the absolute earliest. Rather than worrying about how different monitors/setups compare with each other I am far more interested in how what I am seeing on screen compares with what I would see in real life.
I don't care if someone on lower resolution can see a dot at 8Km or more if in real life a pilot might not see the plane at 5 or 6km and then depending on light conditions. I would far rather see a beautifully rendered, sharp and antialiased plane at 500m and to make a positive ID when it counts.
The discussions are all about what is seen on one screen compared with another but much more rarely about what was actually seen in real life. Lets face it, a common tactic especially of bombers was to fly low to avoid detection from fighters so perhaps not being able to spot planes against the forest is more realistic especially if flying on a full switch server without icons.I have also read accounts of flights spotting lower planes and having to descend to identify them.
Mistaken identity and friendly fire incidents were a real risk. Wasn't there a documentary that suggested Douglas Bader was most likely downed by friendly fire and he invented the story of a 109 collision to protect his fellow RAF pilot?
There are still a few weeks before we will know how much better the landscape and rendering and visibility of objects are in CoD compared to IL-2 (I don't think any of the promised videos will really do justice at all) but two things in particular I hope will be an improvement. The flare and glint of sun on planes should be much more lifelike and help spot distant aircraft and the dynamically moving shadows in the cockpits will maybe make positioning yourself between the sun and your target much easier. It really will be a case of 'beware the hun in the sun'.