Su26

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Tomcat, the propwash ingame is just a graphic thing I think and it's just a fraction of what it really is in RL.

I understand what you said Stern. But I think that PW is both too complicated to be calculated by the FM and the amplitude of its effect being nearly cte (depending of angle ratio) it can be treated accuratly by only a graphic trick (eg : bank over or shaking). Just like turbulences (minus G ( hence speed)).

The prob with prop wash is that it add a tangencial component to the speed adding a third dimension to be fully calculated by the FM engine at each iteration.

End of OT speculations from me here

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

I understand what you said Stern. But I think that PW is both too complicated to be calculated by the FM and the amplitude of its effect being nearly cte (depending of angle ratio) it can be treated accuratly by only a graphic trick (eg : bank over or shaking). Just like turbulences (minus G ( hence speed)).

The prob with prop wash is that it add a tangencial component to the speed adding a third dimension to be fully calculated by the FM engine at each iteration.

End of OT speculations from me here

Yeah, Oleg mentioned it years ago though, he said there is a FM for propwash and wake turbulence, but it wasn't activated to "reduce the difficulty level" (read "it wasn't working properly").

Rise of Flight is very good for this, but I agree, we've got a long way to go in terms of FM, imagine when sims will be able to do this

[Faucon]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Little arrogant, self-proclaimed experts like you should always check who they're measuring with before making comments on stuff they obviously don't know much about, if anything to avoid being humiliated with facts. Unbelievable..

MORON
Where did I ever said "I'm an expert"?

Your message ("lol seeing a prop plane flying aerobatic routines meant for jets is quite funny (other than not realistic)") was just too light to understand you were speaking about a specific thing (landing in formation with warbirds).
Next time, be clear, dumb shit.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Faucon

MORON
Where did I ever said "I'm an expert"?

Your message ("lol seeing a prop plane flying aerobatic routines meant for jets is quite funny (other than not realistic)") was just too light to understand you were speaking about a specific thing (landing in formation with warbirds).
Next time, be clear, dumb shit.

you, sir, have just been reported.

..it burns when you're proven wrong eh, keyboard hero?

[Faucon]

You are just one of those guys who cant read what we are saying to them.

Your message ("lol seeing a prop plane flying aerobatic routines meant for jets is quite funny (other than not realistic)") was just too light to understand you were speaking about a specific thing (landing in formation with warbirds).
Next time, be clear, dumb shit.

When I read your first message I thought it was like "making formation flights with warbirds" is not realistic. This is simply why I answered with videos of formation flights made with prop planes.

Now someting else about the razgriz's video: If they are landing in close formation, it's their choice and right. It's a game after all. Realistic or not, it depends how you use it. For example (Tuckie can confirm), I'm part of a virtual aerobatic team (Blue Comets) which is led by an experimented formation flight pilot (with prop-planes). For live show, we were always landing one by one after a break. "Blue Comets, virtual world, real procedures".
You seems to laugh unrespectaly at people doing this in IL2.

And you better not accusing me of being an "armchair expert" while I post (on the same topic) 2 videos of myself making advanced aerobatics with a 2-seats (advanced for this kind of plane I mean, not the competition level).

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Faucon

You are just one of those guys who cant read what we are saying to them.

no, I'm one of those guys who don't like arrogant folks of your stance.

When I read your first message I thought it was like "making formation flights with warbirds" is not realistic. This is simply why I answered with videos of formation flights made with prop planes.

you don't want to fly diamond formations like they do either, or you'll fly in the wake turbulence of the plane in front of you. Take off and landings as they do are cool to see but are not realistic with a high performance prop plane.

Now someting else about the razgriz's video: If they are landing in close formation, it's their choice and right. It's a game after all. Realistic or not, it depends how you use it. For example (Tuckie can confirm), I'm part of a virtual aerobatic team (Blue Comets) which is led by an experimented formation flight pilot (with prop-planes). For live show, we were always landing one by one after a break. "Blue Comets, virtual world, real procedures".
You seems to laugh unrespectaly at people doing this in IL2.

no, I just said it's funny, it's probably because I used to fly close formations with vintage planes and I know the dos and donts of such activity. As you said it's a game, it's not reality, but some people see that and are actually convinced it's feasible. I find it amusing, that's it.

And you better not accusing me of being an "armchair expert" while I post (on the same topic) 2 videos of myself making advanced aerobatics with a 2-seats (advanced for this kind of plane I mean, not the competition level).

well I want to hope that you were passenger, because if you're learning to become an aerobatic pilot and you don't understand what I mean you've got a LONG way to go buddy..

..and all of this still doesn't justify for your language and offensive words..

[Faucon]

Sure I understand what you meant. What I'm saying, once again, is that you weren't enough clear, as I explained...

well I want to hope that you were passenger

It would be hard since I'm alone in the plane

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Faucon

Sure I understand what you meant. What I'm saying, once again, is that you weren't enough clear, as I explained...

still no reason for your smarmy answer, since you don't know my flight experience..

It would be hard since I'm alone in the plane

well you'll need a lot of luck then: arrogant pilots like you don't usually survive themselves..

[pupo162]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

still no reason for your smarmy answer, since you don't know my flight experience..



well you'll need a lot of luck then: arrogant pilots like you don't usually survive themselves..

dont you think you have trolled enough yet?

[Madfish]

Sorry stern but are you on drugs or what is wrong with you?

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

lol seeing a prop plane flying aerobatic routines meant for jets is quite funny (other than not realistic )

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

I'm sorry, but unlike you I'm not an armchair expert..

blablablabla

Little arrogant, self-proclaimed experts like you should always check who they're measuring with before making comments on stuff they obviously don't know much about, if anything to avoid being humiliated with facts. Unbelievable..

Until this point Faucon hasn't been arrogant or rude at all. Please go see a doctor to get your issues fixed mate or at least re-read what you're writing.

You literally entered the discussion with a kiddo comment "lolz I gotz the 1337 speak raight ay?"
Of course people will misunderstand that pointless gibberish, and they did. Their response however you counter with a ton of insults.

On top of everything you aren't even capable to read since it was mentioned before that Faucon is a real acrobatics pilot so once more you humiliated no one other than yourself.


I've tried to defend you on a number of occasions but this time I must advise you to call an ambulance and get yourself checked out ASAP before derailing this any further.


I REALLY hope this can stop now. I honestly think it's completely boring.
-----------------------------------




That aside I want to mention a few things.

First thing I did when I bought IL2 CloD was trying to go into free flight and select the SU. That was the time when I even visited the forums and made a topic to ask about the SU, where it is and what I'm doing wrong because I can't fly it.
I WANTED THAT PLANE. And it was promised to us by them.

The devs said it'd prove the awesomeness of the FM. I'd even understand if they'd sell it as a DLC. But I want that plane.


For many people shooting is NOT the essence of flight. In fact we all spend 99.9% of the time just flying and NOT pressing the trigger. You don't even have that much ammo OR that many enemies.
But "mastering" flight in a safe "armchair" way is enjoyable. No fuel costs, no degrading planes, no risk of life - it's just perfect and in many ways much better than the real thing.

Now of course some "real" experts will say "no way blablablabla" - I don't care. It's rubbish. You can't expect 7 billion people to fly an airplane. Get over it - just because you fly a real plane you're nothing better than the smart people who actually may prefer not polluting the globe for nonsense. It's a great hobby for some but it can't be one for everyone. And no one is better than someone else just because of a stupid hobby.

What I really think is that the SU and more "civil" planes would still add a lot to the sim AND may increase the sales. I love "stunt" flying. Many others as well. Not necessarily formation flying but really just jerking around etc. It's fun, it's awesome and the more planes you have the more fun it really gets. Especially together and in multiplayer. And that means sales.

I don't believe that we need to take out everything that's not about bullets piercing your victim - much of the sim is just for pleasure and there is NO harm in a SU 26. It can't even fire a bullet so why would the masses be so scared of it?

If you fear that the devs would sacrifice precious time - you're wrong. The SU26 is 99% complete. The model is there, the FM is "there". Maybe it needs adjustment but heck, sell it for 10 bucks and I'll buy it! The game sells for the same now so how can that be a loss?


@tuckie and faucon - I agree, the game is closest regarding the FM and all. I too remember the awesomeness of Flight Unlimited. Damn, I LOVED that game. I wish a bit of it's spirit could be transplanted into CloD for those of us who're not constantly on the hunt but actually hunt for joy in flight.