4.11 - AI debugging

[[URU]BlackFox]

I was testing the AI strafing behaviour, and it seems that it just makes one strafing run, no matter the results, and gives up strafing.

The old routine, the one that made the AI get far away from the target before coming in again was not good, and maybe this could be a good time to redo the ground attack logic.

I attached the test mission (I just ran it from the FMB). I tried a fighter (P-47), and a Sturmovik, with the same results.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by FC99

Another annoying example is when you have heavy bombers at high altitude and Leader is damaged. It start to lose alt and lead whole flight down low.

We will do something about it.

I don't know how easy this would be to code, but perhaps if 'plane A' shows some signs that it might drag a formation down, the formation leader is switched to a more healthy plane in the flight.

If 'plane A' does then loose altitude, that's fine, but also if 'plane A' does not loose altitude, it can still fly with the formation, even if it is not leading it.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by FC99

There is a part of the code which should deal with this, I'll check if something is wrong there.

FC

Here is a short video ..

[Letum]

I have a mission with some P-38s tank busting.
They are set to GAttack some tanks that are set as the target at the waypoint.

The P38s approach the tanks at 2.5k and drop their bombs as if they where heavy bombers. Is this normal? I don't remember this behaviour pre-patch.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I like most of the AI improvements .. but one thing that still sticks in my craw is the fact that AI will still keep flying after getting flamed. I can see if it is an engine fire and the plane goes into a dive .. but a wing fire .. the pilot should bail... or crash ... or bail and then crash .. but he definitely should not continue flying and even shooting..

There may have to be some subtlety there. Not sure how the AI works but if I were flying a multi engine medium or heavy bomber I may stick with the plane with a fuel fire on a wing and see if it will go out. If so the plane may be flyable back to base. On a Ki-84 with a wing fire I would bail immediately.

I suspect that was also the case with many crews during WWII having read so many reports of B-17s coming back with incredible damage and sometimes suffering fires on the way back. Not all of those ended at all in a happy way but some of them did make it back...

So ... we may not want the AI to jump at the first sign of fire. Some sort of judgement calculation maybe? No idea how it specifically works.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Letum

I have a mission with some P-38s tank busting.
They are set to GAttack some tanks that are set as the target at the waypoint.

The P38s approach the tanks at 2.5k and drop their bombs as if they where heavy bombers. Is this normal? I don't remember this behaviour pre-patch.

Could have something to do with the altitude of the GATTACK point? Mine are always set low (around 500 meters). I'm fairly certain the AI would try for a "level bomb attack" even in 4.10.1 and earlier. Unless the altitude was sufficiently low.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Now I know that the AI went into a dive to put out the fire... but we were not that high ... and I have heard of engine fires being put out that way but not wing fires

Why shouldn't a fire in the wing go out if you dive? The whole idea is that the hard dive deprives the fire of oxygen and heat it goes out, just like blowing out a match.

Another factor is that, realistically, the pilot could divert fuel from the damaged tank, or else the fire consumes all the fuel. Once the fuel is gone, no more fire, since duralloy aluminum doesn't burn that well.

Mind you, I'm not letting the AI or the damage modeling off the hook here, but if you were in combat and you had a fire that went out, leaving the plane basically flyable, wouldn't you fight on if circumstances demanded it?

Looking at the video, if you told me that a player was flying the Ki-84 that got shot up, the behavior wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[Jumoschwanz]

I noticed that Ace AI fighters will keep chasing after and shooting enemy fighters when the enemy fighter is in flames and/or the engine is stopped. Just thought it was a waste of resources and ammo for them.

On the other hand, I have seen a number of times when Ace AI are themselves in disabled fighters or bombers, either on fire or with stopped engines or missing controls and they continue to fly the aircraft instead of bail.

Not a problem for me, and I am sure that in WWII some chose to stick with their aircraft rather than bail, but in the cases I am talking about the aircraft ends up crashing and killing the crew.

Maybe something is damaged or the AI are wounded and they can not bail out? Altitude does not seem to be a factor as sometimes they will bail so low they hit the ground too fast and die.

Sure, sometimes the AI will fly into the ground, but I am sure a lot of aircraft in WWII hit the ground or water while fighting at low altitude also, so it may actually be adding realism to have random aircraft hit the ground, random AI pilots not bailing, and AI fighters shooting at enemy aircraft that are already disabled, maybe even have them shoot at parachutes once in a while?

So depending on how you look at it things with the AI can either be faults or simply imitating humans with all their faults and erratic behavior.

As far as fighting ability goes, the Ace AI is still not as good as the better human pilots flying online, it is damn good but not like human Ace pilots.

I am not saying that I am an ace, but I can probably beat the Ace AI almost every time 1 vs.1 or two. Sometimes I can even take three or four of them out.

When I shoot their aircraft to pieces, I always feel better if they can bail and save their virtual lives. If I disable an enemy AI I often let it limp home and save the ammo for healthier targets. That too might be an interesting trait to put into the AI, some mercy every now and then.

Thanks for your time.... S!

Oh, and yes, I will dive to put a fire out on my aircraft, and if I can I will take a few more shots before the next fire starts no problem....

[Jumoschwanz]

Originally Posted by MadCat242

Hello gentlemen,
Is that on purpose? Did the ai "thought" their leader is leading them into that dive? Blindly following orders? Or did the ai just didn't switch to "hes going down, no need to follow. No.2 is the new boss"?PS: I installed that hotfix aswell

There was the example in Erich Hartmann's book where an entire flight of IL2s with heavy bomb loads followed their squadron leaders bad maneuver and they all hit the ground.

I have often thought that any fantastic thing we have ever seen happen in this sim probably happened in WWII at least once also!

[Juri_JS]

Originally Posted by FC99

I have something ready for 4.11.1, thanks for reporting the problem and helping with missions.

Thank you for your efforts FC99.
Can you tell me if there is any news on the Mosquito ship attack issue? I am asking because it seriously hampers one of my campaign projects.