Muzzleflashes unrealistic?

[the Dutchman]

A lot of good footage here;

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...7155929356717#

[Ravenous]

Originally Posted by ChrisDNT

"Kinda hard to avoid that in nightfighters isn't it?"

We were not talking here about muzzleflash by night firing.

hey, i was just kinda saying that in reply to your "But remember one thing, weapons engineers are not retards, they would not conceive for instance a nose gun with a heavy muzzleflash which would empeach the pilot to see anything when firing, it's simply not logical." because it made me think of the 109's 15, 20 and later 30mm nose gun...

i believe the 30mm would produce some flash when i see stuff like this picture of an AR-15 5.56mm...

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger

..or u can put a cover in front of the tracer phosphorous component, which will burn when the powder goes off

Check out Galway's excellent image

Cover is great idea, if that get's untight for whatever reason it will ignite the powder, yippee.
Trust me, ammo gets damaged a lot in service...
(Worst thing I've seen was a 120mm KE shell which got torn apart inside a tank. The thing wasn't locked in position in the lower hull mag, and when the turret turned... )


edit
To skoshi: Thx.

this is a scene from the movie "idi i smotri" which was made in the early 80s. This specific scene was shot in a time and atmosphere when health and safety and animal rights weren't a major concern.
What you see starting from 3.22 is actual machine gun fire and real tracers, note that it's dusk and that the machine gun muzzle flashes are well visible

WARNING: the cow in the scene actually gets it, it's no trick, so if you are for the rights of cows or don't wanna see a cow being hit by a machine gun, don't watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exlKI...eature=related

Originally Posted by swiss

Cover is great idea, if that get's untight for whatever reason it will ignite the powder, yippee.
Trust me, ammo gets damaged a lot in service...
(Worst thing I've seen was a 120mm KE shell which got torn apart inside a tank. The thing wasn't locked in position in the lower hull mag, and when the turret turned... )


edit
To skoshi: Thx.

tracer ammunition is crafted with extra care for this specific reason. It happened to some friends in Italy while digging out the wreck of a Bf109: when they reached the Mk108 ammo box, they took it off the mud and it started fizzling, smoking and hissing.. needless to say there was a unison jump out of the hole and a lot of running involved

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Ah, I was waiting for the "this is a Russian aircraft, so it's different" argument.

If the Russians added too much power to their ammo, then I'd expect that one of my several Mosins or other Soviet firearms in my collection would have exploded by now.

If you can see a muzzle flash during the day you've got too much power and a lot of it is being burned outside of the barrel. It's very similar to stack fires in rich running aircraft (another can of worms). Hence the Mosin's muzzle flash being visible during the day is a result of powder being burned outside of the barrel (too much).

As far as your point on "exploding Mosins" not likely. You can add a lot of extra powder to most bolt action rifles (Mauser's and pre/early war Arisaka's especially) without much chance of a catastrophic failure. Heck, a lot of companies usually end up loading something in the order of 3 times too much powder before they get a catastrophic failure involving the action, typically it's the barrel that goes first.

Anyways, we're talking about British .303, and German 7.92 and 20mm guns. Posting a soviet plane has little to do with Spit/Hurri/BF-109/110 visible muzzle flashes during the day.

Muzzle flashes under most conditions with regards to the planes involved in the Battle of Britain are not visible during the day.

[Defender]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger

this is a scene from the movie "idi i smotri" which was made in the early 80s. This specific scene was shot in a time and atmosphere when health and safety and animal rights weren't a major concern.
What you see starting from 3.22 is actual machine gun fire and real tracers, note that it's dusk and that the machine gun muzzle flashes are well visible

WARNING: the cow in the scene actually gets it, it's no trick, so if you are for the rights of cows or don't wanna see a cow being hit by a machine gun, don't watch it.

Poor cow, pretty sure that director is a total wank considering he broke rule number 3 of movie making. "MAKE BELIEVE" ... shooting a real cow crosses that line of movie magic and human "cruelty". Animals for food I get, riddling a dairy cow with machine gun fire for entertainment to trigger an emo response is just lame.

Sorry, I had to say something on it...apart from that, it illustrates your point well

[swiss]

I can't see anything which would make me believe the really shot the cow.

[engarde]

Originally Posted by GnigruH

Yes, muzzleflashes unrealistic.

i believe that if you could freeze the video at exactly the right time yes you would see a momentary lighting as the burning gas pushing the bullet leaves the barrel.

though it would be momentary and small.

i agree though, no giant plumes of fiery awesomeness searing the sky thanks.

smoke trails.

yay.

[engarde]

Originally Posted by ChrisDNT

"If they manage to create a muzzle flash that is random and has a fair amount of alpha channel in it they're gonna nail it."

Yes, that's right, this will be a good solution, but again, it depends on so many factors, that a single rule will be hard to find.

But remember one thing, weapons engineers are not retards, they would not conceive for instance a nose gun with a heavy muzzleflash which would empeach the pilot to see anything when firing, it's simply not logical.

i believe the FA18 has that exact problem.

due to the position of the cannon directly in front of the pilot, muzzle flash is an issue.