Durability of aircraft to MG (< 8mm) guns

[GnigruH]

Originally Posted by Chivas

I doubt very much the developers will nerf the cannons and uber the smaller calibres.

Slight boost here, small nerf there - this could happen.
Although I agree that with many things to damage, spraying a burst of small calibre rounds over a target could be effective.

BTW my only complaint about cannons in '46 is that, last time when I played it, when you hit someone with a single round, he would either loose his wing, loose his rear fuselage, have his engine on fire or crumble into dozens of small triangles.
AFAIK this is not like it should be.

In CoD it will be possible to load each gun with different ammo, so I look forward to experiment a little .

[swiss]

Originally Posted by GnigruH

BTW my only complaint about cannons in '46 is that, last time when I played it,

that was either some time ago, or a Mk108.
If it was the latter, the effect on fighter is ok.

If I remember correctly, in RL it only took 5 hits to bring down a B17 - and that is one huge mofo.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by GnigruH

Slight boost here, small nerf there - this could happen.
Although I agree that with many things to damage, spraying a burst of small calibre rounds over a target could be effective.

BTW my only complaint about cannons in '46 is that, last time when I played it, when you hit someone with a single round, he would either loose his wing, loose his rear fuselage, have his engine on fire or crumble into dozens of small triangles.
AFAIK this is not like it should be.

In CoD it will be possible to load each gun with different ammo, so I look forward to experiment a little .

I agree it will be much more interesting fighting in the Cliffs of Dover.

I've used the MK108 alot in the sim and it definitely does considerable damage, but I've seen many aircraft in the sim take several MK108's or other cannons and keep fighting. The smaller calibers can also be very devastating too when you fire at your convergence setting. I find most sim pilots are not very good shots and some don't completely understand convergence or deflection shooting.

[Erkki]

Probably all weapons will generally be more lethal, but less de-wings/de-tailings... Remember a cannon HE shell going off isnt just the pressure damage, but also shrapnel. A HE round in the wing tip may result in a shrapnel in the pilots head... Or in the engine, cooling system etc.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Chivas

I agree it will be much more interesting fighting in the Cliffs of Dover.

I've used the MK108 alot in the sim and it definitely does considerable damage, but I've seen many aircraft in the sim take several MK108's or other cannons and keep fighting. The smaller calibers can also be very devastating too when you fire at your convergence setting. I find most sim pilots are not very good shots and some don't completely understand convergence or deflection shooting.

It's a real matter of luck I've noticed, some times they just absorb the 30mm rounds like nothing happend, other times they explode on the first hit, also deflection shooting really increases that chance of a 1 hit kill.

[WTE_Galway]

Just a small snapshot to keep the whole 30mm versus 0.50 cal thing in perspective ....

[GnigruH]

Impressive, but is this the way to prove that they should de-wing instantly?

Also in this whole cannon vs mg discussion you should take into account the rof of weapons which used this ammo.
You fired two cannon rounds. How many rounds 8 mgs fired in the same time period?

that was either some time ago, or a Mk108

Some time ago.

I've used the MK108 alot in the sim and it definitely does considerable damage, but I've seen many aircraft in the sim take several MK108's or other cannons and keep fighting.

My comment was about single engine aircraft.

[JG4_Helofly]

Originally Posted by GnigruH

Impressive, but is this the way to prove that they should de-wing instantly?

Also in this whole cannon vs mg discussion you should take into account the rof of weapons which used this ammo.
You fired two cannon rounds. How many rounds 8 mgs fired in the same time period?


Some time ago.

My comment was about single engine aircraft.

Have you ever seen the video in which they shoot on a spitfires wing with a Mk108 on the ground? Just one single round, but the damage is considerable. In flight with all the stress on the wing, it would probably just break. The germans reported that it took about three 30mm rounds to down a bomber and about seven 20mm rounds for the same result.
Talking about rof: The MGs might have a higher rate of fire, but you still have to hit. If you are not at gun convergence range, most of your bullets will miss.
An other element is the energy which is delivered to the target. MG bullets only have kinetic energy, canon shells have also chemical energy (mine shells etc.).

To sum it up. In any case you have to keep your aim at the enemy long enough to bring a sufficient amount of led on target. Canons will of course be more destructive, but more skill is requiered in order to hit, because of the low rof. MGs will probably be easier to use, because even with bad shooting skills, you still can score a few hits and hope to hit a vital internal system.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

On the other hand I had a Vietnamese friend who said they found during the war that 3 feet or so of loose "brush" consisting of cut leafy branches one or two inches thick over a trench or pit would not only camouflaged them from helicopters but effectively stopped a lot of rifle calibre MGs.

Actually that is exactly the opposite of what some Swiss tests showed.

They put barricades right in front of trench, but instead of trying to hit into the trench they fired right upon the stuff in front of it. Ammo was 7.5x55mm Swiss.
When they went to check, the targets in the trench were perforated from the debris.

[BadgerSmedly]

I can't criticise the damage model in 1946, but I have to admit that on-line the P-47 has been most resistant to my 109's mk108 at about 250M, on more than one occasion too.

Interestingly the off-line results are more predictable with significant damage incurred, so I suspect that the model dynamics etc. have to accommodate many scenarios with differing results.

Maybe I should fly the P-47 on-line instead....