Sure hope Oleg gets with the program

[Baghr]

Thank you for the kind words. I feel there are many more that feel the way I do than what you would believe.

I have remembered all my life my words that were once said by a very wise man (my Father)

"If you close your mouth and open you ears its amazing what can be heard if you try."

I have lived by this during most of my life and it so far has worked pretty well.


edited cus it didnt make sense-I must be tired.....

[Triad773]

Many like Pushkin; I myself like Dostoevsky.

I knew last week from growing up from Cold War generation shooting down American Satellite was nothing but old dog with new tricks. Well perhaps I show my age, as well as skepticism.

Here's hoping it all works out to everyone's satisfaction. The tables have turned after a fashion: before the US had all the money for weapons dev.- now, with Russia's oil and natural gas wealth (as well as China's cash influx from displaced work,) the situation is now reversed.

What brought down the Iron Curtain but lack of current resources? Who really knows what the future holds?

I'd just be happy to have a 4.09 final. Call me a simple man, but it is a means to happiness.

~S~

Triad

[mondo]

Originally Posted by PBNA-Boosher

Mondo, Nearmiss, I agree with you, but it's not just Bush. Both the USA and Russia have been testing each other for a very long time now.

From the way I see it, all Russian reactions are down to the US pressing with the missile defense shield. Every time the US says its talked with a nation or struck a deal to put interceptor missiles in a northern European nation Russia reacts with some similar sabre rattling. Since Britain is now talking too we've seen flights by Bears over our shores and we probably have Russian nukes aimed at us again. Cheers USA.

[Bobb4]

Anyone that seriously believes that Russia is a major threat to world peace is crazy. The USA has firmly secured the mantel of world superpower!
However as they flounder in Iraq, blunder over Iran and quiver at the thought of North Korea one has to wonder if being such a great superpower is really worth the effort.
No one respects them, hardly anyone fears them and about the only thing they can do well is send us all back to the stone age if they wanted to with their nukes.
Not something I would like to be remembered for.
The problem with being at the top is everyone wants to take it away from you and unfortunately that is where the USA sits now.

People everywhere want peace, but few are prepared to pay the price for it. I do not know of a single religion that promotes war, yet we all fight on the side of God.

[Sir-Loopalot]

I like to see that a game can force people to think about politics.

To all the americans around here: Dont get me wrong, i like the USA and Canada, was there for several times and had nice days there with american friends, BUT:

The problem that i see is that every US citizen thinks that the US as a country are the
"good ones".
There are no "good countries" in the big game.( OK maybe Switzerland
Look at the "Weapon of Mass Destruction" thing with Irak.Ok, Saddam was an Asshole and the world has one Dictator less today, but The USA started a war based on a Lie.( BTW, the USA is the only country that used Nukes on civilians, TWICE!)
Look at the Vietnam War, where US Bombers dropped more bombs and agent orange on (mostly) civilians than every country dropped during WW2.
Look at the several Dictatorships that were supported by the US, in South America , Arabia and Asia, just to enforce US Interests.
Look at the Democratic Iranian President that was Kicked out of Power and replaced with the "SCHA" by the CIA in the 1950`s ( or 60`s dunno). And after the islamic revolution in Iran, the US Governement enforced both sides, the Iran AND the Irak to start a looooong war that killed hundreds of thousands.
Look at uncountable other occasions where the US of A started conflicts all over the world with the help of its numerous Agencies, just to enforce US economical or political goals.

I have to say it again, i like most of the american people i met since now, but i do not like the US as a global Player.
OK, other countries have done bad things too, ESPECIALY MINE, but there is no other country i know where nearly EVERY citizen thinks that all the wars were fought for good reasons.
I dont like the fact that most of the world hates America nowadays,i liked the world more when i was young and loved America without any doubts, but you will not win other countries hearts by intelligent-bombing the Haters away!
The US fought more wars in the past 100 years than every other country,and now they are the most powerful country in the world. And the most behated. Isnt that something to think about?

[Blackdog_kt]

I think it all boils down to being active as a citizen. You can't correct your country's wrongs on a global scale if you don't work in parallel to correct them on a domestic scale. America is a powerful country built on the honest sweat and toil of its people, but also on the blood of many people including their own. And it happens to a certain degree in every country out there.

Why is the US able to have such a powerful, professional army? Because it's the domestic policies that enforce this on the citizen. If i come from a disadvantaged background, more so for minorities, if i have no insurance, no job, no health care, no means to feed my family and no money to adequately support myself through college what are my options for a good and dependable paycheck? I either go for big money with an uncertainty factor by crossing to the wrong side of the law, or settle for less money but in a heavily regulated environment and enlist in the professional army. Or flip burgers for the rest of my life.

Professional armies are good for a country to have because the personnel accumulates training and experience, but a 100% professional army dilutes the basic idea behind an army. And that is that every man will do his part if the need arises for the defence of certain values and their homes. In the case of the US, a bunch of people will skip going to the army because they can afford a better standard of living and leave it to those with a higher sense of responsibility and those with no better means to pursue a career. In my humble opinion, a mix of drafted conscripts and professionals is best, because it will still accumulate the needed experience among its professional ranks, while still containing enough civilians to doubt and oppose its use as a mercenary tool for some powermongers that sit in an office and talk on the phone while we're out there getting killed. And while they can't do much while they are in the army, they still have something that worries the suits, a voice, a brain and a vote.

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

I think it all boils down to being active as a citizen. You can't correct your country's wrongs on a global scale if you don't work in parallel to correct them on a domestic scale. America is a powerful country built on the honest sweat and toil of its people, but also on the blood of many people including their own. And it happens to a certain degree in every country out there.

Why is the US able to have such a powerful, professional army? Because it's the domestic policies that enforce this on the citizen. If i come from a disadvantaged background, more so for minorities, if i have no insurance, no job, no health care, no means to feed my family and no money to adequately support myself through college what are my options for a good and dependable paycheck? I either go for big money with an uncertainty factor by crossing to the wrong side of the law, or settle for less money but in a heavily regulated environment and enlist in the professional army. Or flip burgers for the rest of my life.

Professional armies are good for a country to have because the personnel accumulates training and experience, but a 100% professional army dilutes the basic idea behind an army. And that is that every man will do his part if the need arises for the defence of certain values and their homes. In the case of the US, a bunch of people will skip going to the army because they can afford a better standard of living and leave it to those with a higher sense of responsibility and those with no better means to pursue a career. In my humble opinion, a mix of drafted conscripts and professionals is best, because it will still accumulate the needed experience among its professional ranks, while still containing enough civilians to doubt and oppose its use as a mercenary tool for some powermongers that sit in an office and talk on the phone while we're out there getting killed. And while they can't do much while they are in the army, they still have something that worries the suits, a voice, a brain and a vote.

Professional armies are not good over the long term here are a few reasons.

After years of counting on mercenary armies the people of the country become apathetic about the people in the military.

After years none of the politicians are true patriots, because they are from priviledged backgrounds. It is already becoming a fact in America, that only the old timers who have served in the military empathize with soldiers and understand what it is to get shot at.

Civilians who have never had their life on their line for themselves and their country just cannot know what getting shot at does to you. Facing an enemy intent on killing you, cringing in a foxhole with rpgs going off all around you knowing that it's just going to be divine providence if you get out alive. Well, that puts real emphasis on the price of freedom.

Overtime the professional military always starts taking power... afterall who can stop them. It has been that way since the history of war. When the lack of respect for the military or other pervasive reasons begin to creep in the military begins to change as well. The military begins to protect itself, when the citizens it is created to serve.... no longer respect it.

Professional armies have a history of creating wars and problems, because WAR is their business, that's what they do. It doesn't often take a lot to provoke a war. Think about it.. America has from what I understand 38,000 troops in Korea. What if a couple of not-so-sane generals got to thinking and decided to go after those commie bastards across the 38th parallel border between N and S Korea. They could start an unprecedented incident, and they might very well be able to cover it up. GW Bush did it, and now the TV news has uncovered and documented the GW Bush administration of the American government was guilty of telling 900+ lies to confirm Saddam Hussein's support of terrorism.

-------------------------

Professional armies have always been started and created from the ground up with the poor, disadvantaged and often less intelligent people. THis is not new. It has always been that way. The elite, well educated and priviledged when they serve are always officers, and are awarded the elite commands, etc.

This a fact. I heard a very well educated American woman talking about the military and the soldiers dying in Iraq. She said, " Soldiers know the risk, they volunteered to go into the military". I said to her, that was the stupid. I asked her how many 18-22 years olds have any idea what is to be shot at or attacked by an enemy. Is there anyway those young people can know what they're up against?

I indicated there is a way, which of course would never be done... Make every recruit crawl through a gauntlet about 200 yards of bare ground covered with barbed wire and pop off ordinance all around (at safe distance from the recruits) and have 50 caliber machine guns straffing just above the barbed wire. If the prospective soldier lifted his head, butt or anything too high there would be a 50 caliber imprint on him/her for the rest of life.

Then when the prospective soldier finished ask them if they still want to go into the military. They wouldn't have very many volunteers after that little controlled experiment.

Getting shot at sucks and there is no way you know what it's like until you experience it. There is nothing worse than war.

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

As an American I hate it that people in other countries speak against my country. America is a rich country, but there are other rich countries as well. America gives more financial and charitable aid to troubled nations than all the rest of the world's countries combined. That should speak to people about putting our money where our mouth is. Yet, we are constantly maligned and no one speaks of the facts... what their own country doesn't do.

I think I should explain this: Many people do say hostile things about the United States. But for them the United States means many things other than what you might expect.

Most people in other countries, including most people who have "anti-American" views, actually welcome and like Americans who they meet and are often very sympathetic to the American people (eg. the sympathy rallies throughout Iran after 9/11).

In my country:

- It is often directed at a specific American government. This is especially true when members of the said governments meddle in the internal politics of other countries (example ordering a foreign government to fire a senior bureaucrat, meeting with opposition elements instead of the whole government, making threats).

- In countries that export a lot to the United States the local economic elites become invariably associated with the United States. This is in part because they tend to be owned by American companies or at least identify with them (and thus often advocate policies like the dismantling of Canada), but also because the United States government often takes their side against the local regimes. The problem is that any crimes, disasters or damages done by any of these companies are also linked in our minds with our vision of the United States.

- The term "Anti-American" is used as a political slur to tar anyone from terrorists to people who want to support their traditional cultures, or become like other societies (than the United States). Anyone who wants to have their own government, make their own decisions, be different in any way from the United States is regularly called Anti-American in some parts of the world.

- In part because people sometimes identify with the successes of the United States and in part because of "the American dream", many people associate the United States with cultural imports, or things that are wrong in their own society (eg. fast food).

In Canada it is regularly published in newspapers that the country will eventually become a part of the United States, that we should join now while we can still negotiate, where we are told that if we were ever to disagree in a significant way the result would indeed be invasion.

This may seem somewhat hard to believe, but all these things are true and do happen. Some are day to day facts of life, others only take place once every five years. But we remember them - we have no choice.

The point is people often love Americans while disliking America. If you just see it from our perspective, you will see how both things are not only possible, but necessary. Sometimes it isn't rational, sometimes it is the only logical thing (to disagree with any element of US police is termed "Anti-American" if you remember).

(If this isn't coherent and backed up by examples, I am in a hurry right now. If anyone would like to help gather examples from around the world - send me a private message).

Anyway, I hope this makes sense,

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Avimimus

The point is people often love Americans while disliking America.

I think that's pretty accurate.

[nearmiss]

I think one thing should be clarified...

This might make a great deal of difference to those persons that don't live in America.

The thinking about American companies... is flawed.

This is about American companies that do business outside America. Those companies are interested in one thing, make a profit and there is nothing about patriotism or being an American company that interests them. They may have Americans working for them, and they really use that to keep Americans dumb about them being AMerican companies. They get behind that "being American" to give them preferred treatment in America.

They do that because years ago we had global markets and they were true American companies even when they did business overseas. The development of communications, cheap transportation and spurious trade agreements has turned them into profit takers of the worst sort. The American governments role is to protect and defend the interests of Americans... just like the governments role should be for any country.

In the past few years the influence peddlers (lobbyists) in Washington have increased about 1,000 times. Their job is to promote private special interests and the politicians in Washington are now just whores for their dollars. There is real trouble on the horizon for American people, and it may take major action by the American people to do something about the instability created by the self serving interests of these companies and government that is subverting the will of the AMerican people.

Those companies operating outside America that have plants in America are the worst violators of American Sovereignty and any country they do busines. They exploit illegal immigrant workers, and offshore every job they can. They hire subcontractors that exploit children as workers in some foreign countries,etc. They may be called American, because years ago they may have actually been American companies... that is no longer the case.

One of the largest so-called American Poultry producers is now arranging to send live chickens to China for killing and processing and then shipping them back to America for sale. Walmart is a huge importer of foreign products, and that may sound good to someone in a foreign country. The problem is Walmart is only doing business at dirt wage levels with any country it does business with.

America is the largest consumer market in the world, and with our network of highways, airways and railways it has the most accessible distribution facilities to move goods to the consumers. This efficency to the markets makes every multi-national company want to push for product sales in America.

It is not about AMerican companies it is about multi-national companies taking advantage of every possible opportunity to make more money. Those companies influence and buy the politicians in American and foreign countries.
They manuever with government officials at the highest levels with one purpose in mind "Make Money". They care less for the economy, welfare, wealth, health care, jobs of any country and there is nothing "deep down inside" American about them.

Effectively, they are so influential they make people in other countries think their hateful policies are American policies.

The purpose of governments is to keep these kinds of things from happening, but it is tough. These companies have huge profits and the more profitable they become the more difficult they are to do anything about. They can buy more and more influence with the money the make.

America has a problem and until something is done more and more people from outside America will think negatively about Americans, but they are hating the wrong people. We are having a problem with those multi-national interests/companies as well.

I hope I explained that.

The stupid terrorists are targeting the wrong people, it's not about Americans, British, Spanish, etc. It's about the blatant and abuse tactics and strategies being applied by multi-national interests that disrespect countries, governments and the people of any country to make money. The sad part is their own countrys' leaders are just as guilty of taking advantage of their own people. The despotic leaders point at America to divert attention from themselves and encourage anything that protects or defends their own influence and power. One Middle East country has spent billions financing radical islamic teachings in Pakistan, Indonesia,etc. The purpose being to preserve archaic religious beliefs that give them power over their people... religioous belief is a powerful motivator.