water cannon

[Das Attorney]

lol at expanding gun ownership in Britain. Too many drunks here for that to be a good idea!

What do I need a gun for anyway? There's no wolves or bears here last time I looked. If it's against crims in my house then I'd rather knock them out with a chair leg or something instead of shooting them. Better that than think 'murderer' every time I look in the mirror afterward.

I was caught up in a shooting in Greenford once though. It wasn't much fun and I was glad to get out of there pronto. I don't think having a shooter would have helped the situation at all.

It just raises the stakes too much. I have no problem with other people in other countries carrying guns. Not here thanks though!

[Targ]

Originally Posted by unreasonable

A "we know better" attitude is hardly confined to the British!

The point is that if everyone is allowed to have a gun, then it rapidly becomes necessary for everyone to have one, as an arms race between criminals and citizens sets in. While if no-one has one, this is a common good. I agree that it makes burglary more common - but it also reduces the lethality of muggings.

There is also the accident rate to consider - I am too lazy to look it up but I would make a wager that the rate of deaths by accidental shooting in the US is higher than the UK's entire murder rate, whether inflicted with gun, knife or horrible food (eg the "Great British Sausage").

I would prefer to live in a society free of handguns and assault rifles, (although I am quite familiar with their use), but I recognize that this is not a realistic option for the USA given the NRA and the sheer number of guns in circulation.

Arms race?

I dont think so.

Criminals go for the low hanging fruit and much prefer robbing old ladies and the helpless.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Lixma

You can't simultaneously hold the positions that :-

A) Gun ownership prevents crime.

and....

B) Crime rates in the UK will be unaffected by public ownership of firearms.

If gun ownership prevents crime then all things being equal the the crime rate should come down after its introduction.

But if, as you said, the crime rate will remain un-affected then in what tangible sense has gun ownership prevented crime?

I have never said that gun ownership prevents crime, I just like firearms and want to be free to use them.

Let me give you an example: I can legally own a bolt action rifle (modern or vintage), but NOT a semiauto one. What's the difference? I'm still gonna be able to kill with a bolt action rifle.. it's the legislation that is ridiculous, not people's opinion on it.

I frankly don't care what people think of firearms, men that don't like em never shot one probably, but again, it's not my problem, I know I like going to the range and use my ww2 rifles, period. Some people go fishing, some others dress up like women, I like firearms. If then having one in the house would allow me for self defence, well I don't see why I shouldn't have it.

You lot have a very distorted vision of owning firearms me thinks..

[Das Attorney]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

ILet me give you an example: I can legally own a bolt action rifle (modern or vintage), but NOT a semiauto one. What's the difference? I'm still gonna be able to kill with a bolt action rifle.. it's the legislation that is ridiculous, not people's opinion on it.

That legislation was bought in after the Hungerford massacre. As you may remember, Michael Ryan had a semi automatic rifle (an AK I think) and used it very efficiently.

The idea was to limit the damage one individual could do with a weapon. Slower rate of fire = less kills per unit of time etc

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by DayGlow

And the death rate from automobiles is astronomically higher than either stat, so wouldn't be more prudent to get rid of cars because thy statistically kill a lot more people than any other weapon?

No we need to ban the one common denominator in these problems. Humans. We should just ban humans. Check out the stats for alcohol related drunk driving accidents that resulted in death in Texas. Couldn't find the last couple of years but nevertheless.

1982 4,213
1983 3,823
1984 3,912
1985 3,678
1986 3,567
1987 3,260
1988 3,392
1989 3,370
1990 3,250
1991 3,078
1992 3,059
1993 3,043
1994 3,187
1995 3,183
1996 3,742
1997 3,513
1998 3,586
1999 3,522
2000 3,779
2001 3,736
2002 3,823
2003 3,675
2004 3,583
2005 3,504
2006 3,466
2007 3,363
2008 3,382

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by Das Attorney

lol at expanding gun ownership in Britain. Too many drunks here for that to be a good idea!

What do I need a gun for anyway? There's no wolves or bears here last time I looked. If it's against crims in my house then I'd rather knock them out with a chair leg or something instead of shooting them. Better that than think 'murderer' every time I look in the mirror afterward.

I was caught up in a shooting in Greenford once though. It wasn't much fun and I was glad to get out of there pronto. I don't think having a shooter would have helped the situation at all.

It just raises the stakes too much. I have no problem with other people in other countries carrying guns. Not here thanks though!

But is it not cheaper to eliminate these individuals from living among us peaceful people than to break an expensive handmade antique 14th century Louis V mahogany chair over their head and have to be fed and supported in a penal facility by you and the tax payers? Get your calculator out and do the math I can reload that one round for about a buck 05 vs what the cost for the expensive antique chair plus years of free rent / food / healthcare.

And unless I am the one being shot at I am not getting involved unless I am pretty sure that I know what is going on and I have as greater chance that the outcome will produce a win for me vs a win for them. This is a flight sim you do essentially the thing. You size up your opponent. You follow and stalk and wait for the right moment and go in for the shot. Same thing. You don't go blazing into battle with a unloaded or empty gun unless you're really trying to entertain the subscribers of the Darwin awards email newsletter.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Das Attorney

That legislation was bought in after the Hungerford massacre. As you may remember, Michael Ryan had a semi automatic rifle (an AK I think) and used it very efficiently.

The idea was to limit the damage one individual could do with a weapon. Slower rate of fire = less kills per unit of time etc

...erm, you can buy a semiauto rimfire .22 CAR15 in the UK... it's just an obstinate political thing..

you forgot the Cumbria shooter and his 12 killed and 23 wounded? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbria_shootings

wake up, people..

[Vengeanze]

Originally Posted by timej31

I purchase from gun shows locally here in Texas now and then. They have them every month. When I have done so you just decide what you want and they make you fill out this paperwork and you have to have proper ID of course. Wait for about 15 minutes while you're background is being checked - usually buying ammo or reloading supplies during this wait. Then they'll call your cell phone to tell you that you're approved and give you receipt and your gun and that's it. You have to 18 or over and a clean criminal background.

Like buying a cell phone over here. Horrible but guess it's about culture. I'm not judging anyone but hope we'll never go that route over here.

[apparition]

Big dogs and booby traps forget the guns.

[Vengeanze]

Originally Posted by apparition

Big dogs and booby traps forget the guns.

...or clone my wife and equip every home with one.