water cannon

[unreasonable]

A "we know better" attitude is hardly confined to the British!

The point is that if everyone is allowed to have a gun, then it rapidly becomes necessary for everyone to have one, as an arms race between criminals and citizens sets in. While if no-one has one, this is a common good. I agree that it makes burglary more common - but it also reduces the lethality of muggings.

There is also the accident rate to consider - I am too lazy to look it up but I would make a wager that the rate of deaths by accidental shooting in the US is higher than the UK's entire murder rate, whether inflicted with gun, knife or horrible food (eg the "Great British Sausage").

I would prefer to live in a society free of handguns and assault rifles, (although I am quite familiar with their use), but I recognize that this is not a realistic option for the USA given the NRA and the sheer number of guns in circulation.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by unreasonable

A "we know better" attitude is hardly confined to the British!

tis true, but they invented it

The point is that if everyone is allowed to have a gun, then it rapidly becomes necessary for everyone to have one, as an arms race between criminals and citizens sets in. While if no-one has one, this is a common good. I agree that it makes burglary more common - but it also reduces the lethality of muggings.

erm, yeah, that in a ideal society, where criminals are abiding the law (?). The truth is that criminals still will find ways of having firearms, so the government only disarms law abiding citizens, not criminals. That's an old bogus thinking which I've heard ad nauseam..

There have recently been changes to our laws here, now if you kill an intruder in your property, unless it's evident he/she was fleeing, you won't be charged with murder.

There is also the accident rate to consider - I am too lazy to look it up but I would make a wager that the rate of deaths by accidental shooting in the US is higher than the UK's entire murder rate, whether inflicted with gun, knife or horrible food (eg the "Great British Sausage").

yeah, and a tenth of the population of the USA?

I would prefer to live in a society free of handguns and assault rifles, (although I am quite familiar with their use), but I recognize that this is not a realistic option for the USA given the NRA and the sheer number of guns in circulation.

I am very familiar with the use of firearms, and I can tell you about other societies where firearms control was introduced for the "greater good": Nazi Germany, Ceaucescu's Romania, Franco's Spain and many other happy regimes..


Mind you, in the UK there is no complete ban, you can have bolt action rifles, rimfire semiautos and muzzle loaders, not to mention smooth bore guns, but it's the demonisation of firearms that is plain ridiculous. You need to think about ultimate protection for yourself and your family, cos there won't be anybody answering your 999 call (which is 666 upside down!) when the zombie apocalypse comes

[nearmiss]

Guns never kill people - it's the biological protoplasm that pulls the trigger.

[Sternjaeger II]

lol unfortunately it's not the first time I see a monkey with a Glock

[Kongo-Otto]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

I am very familiar with the use of firearms, and I can tell you about other societies where firearms control was introduced for the "greater good": Nazi Germany, Ceaucescu's Romania, Franco's Spain and many other happy regimes..

I do't know who told you that crap, but not even the Nazis had a hard Firearms Control law (for Pistols and Rifles, full automatic weapons never had been legal in Germany). The first Firearms control came with the Allies in 1945 when ownership was absolutley prohibited and in 1948 when the Federal Rebublic of Germany was founded, the Allied Firearms Policy was taken as Federal law by the new German Government, that was the Deal for getting back limited sovereignty.

The 1938 German Weapons Act
The 1938 German Weapons Act, the precursor of the current weapons law, superseded the 1928 law. As under the 1928 law, citizens were required to have a permit to carry a firearm and a separate permit to acquire a firearm. Furthermore, the law restricted ownership of firearms to "...persons whose trustworthiness is not in question and who can show a need for a (gun) permit." Under the new law:
Gun restriction laws applied only to handguns**, not to long guns or ammunition. Writes Prof. Bernard Harcourt of the University of Chicago, "The 1938 revisions completely deregulated the acquisition and transfer of rifles and shotguns, as well as ammunition."
The groups of people who were exempt from the acquisition permit requirement expanded.
Holders of annual hunting permits, government workers, and NSDAP party members were no longer subject to gun ownership restrictions.
Prior to the 1938 law, only officials of the central government, the states, and employees of the German Reichsbahn Railways were exempted.
The age at which persons could own guns was lowered from 20 to 18.
The firearms carry permit was valid for three years instead of one year.
Jews were forbidden from the manufacturing or ownership of firearms and ammunition.

Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manufacturers and dealers were required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police authority for inspection at the end of each year.
On November 11, 1938, the Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick, passed Regulations Against Jews Possession of Weapons.
This regulation effectively deprived all Jews of the right to possess firearms or other weapons.

**= which ment a maximum for owned Handguns except for historical collections)

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Kongo-Otto

I do't know who told you that crap, but not even the Nazis had a Firearms Control law (for Pistols and Rifles, full automatic weapons never had been legal in Germany). The first Firearms control came with the Allies in 1945 when ownership was absolutley prohibited and in 1948 when the Federal Rebublic of Germany was founded, the Allied Firearms Policy was taken as Federal law by the new German Government, that was the Deal for getting back limited sovereignty.

*cough cough*

http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.co...tist/id14.html

sorry, I should have specified that Jews were forbidden from owning and making firearms and ammunition..

[Kongo-Otto]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

*cough cough*

http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.co...tist/id14.html

sorry, I should have specified that Jews were forbidden from owning and making firearms and ammunition..

In that dark days Jewish Germans were forbidden for many more things, even the use of Public Parks.
I was in Auschwitz a few years ago, i think everbody nows the Rooms were the Hair and the suitcases are shown to the public, but there is also a little pot full with Iron Crosses, from jewish German WW1 Veterans. There also is this room with artifical arms and legs, maybe some of them is from jewish ww1 vets.
You get your leg shut off at Verdun, just to end in Auschwitz a few years later. It's just....

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Kongo-Otto

In that dark days Jewish Germans were forbidden for many more things, even the use of Public Parks.
I was in Auschwitz a few years ago, i think everbody nows the Rooms were the Hair and the suitcases are shown to the public, but there is also a little pot full with Iron Crosses, from jewish German WW1 Veterans. There also is this room with artifical arms and legs, maybe some of them is from jewish ww1 vets.
You get your leg shut off at Verdun, just to end in Auschwitz a few years later. It's just....

...horrible, I know. But this happened also because of gun control. You remember what happened in the Warsaw ghetto when they managed to get their hands on weapons, right?

We look at WW2 and other conflicts with a distant and detached attitude, but the ultimate right to defend yourself should never be taken off you. It's about freedom, and making sure it's respected.

[Vengeanze]

Hehe, mention firearms to an american and he screams "second amendment" and starts singing the anthem.

Gun homicide per 100,000 population:
USA 3.98
Canada 0.4
England/Wales 0.15

Have fun doing what you're doing while we here in Sweden have intercourse with bikiniteams and polarbears.

[Kongo-Otto]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

...horrible, I know. But this happened also because of gun control. You remember what happened in the Warsaw ghetto when they managed to get their hands on weapons, right?

We look at WW2 and other conflicts with a distant and detached attitude, but the ultimate right to defend yourself should never be taken off you. It's about freedom, and making sure it's respected.

Yes i do, but then it was too late. The Major Problem in germany and maybe the whole world, was that the Nazis were underestimated. Big Mistake.

Yes i'm with you in this point. I have a Firearms License which includes the right to concealed carring a gun which is pretty hard to get here in germany right now and if something similar will happen in germany as it happens right now in London and elswhere, i will defend my self by all means and if necessary that will include the use of Deadly Force.
But that will not happen, because most of them looters are cowards, when they see a gun, they go elsewhere to loot.
But if necessary i will not hesitate and take actions depending on the level of Threat.