Population of IL2 4.08m

[JG27CaptStubing]

Originally Posted by Bobb4

You somehow seem to think I was taking a dig at WOW and have jumped to it's defense. Sorry if I gave that impression.
I was merely pointing out that with the internet having 1.4 billion users, 9 million people play WOW is really not that big..

Hmmm I'm not suggesting you're attacking WOW and I need to defend it... I'm merely pointing out your downplay of 9 million users and the insane financial success of the game.

Originally Posted by Bobb4

To put it another way, there is a massive untapped market waiting to be exploited. I was just pointing out that a combined WW2 sim having all the elements of COD2, IL2 and Silenthunter 4 (include surface ships) would easily attract 40 million plus players.
Again it would have to follow the same stats, ingame world of the landmark games like WOW, EVE etc. WW2 online failed mainly because of a lack of developer support, the game basically remained the same from initial release...
So in a nutshell I was saying an online game, with a persistant universe featuring, planes, tanks soldiers and naval assets in a large FPS type world with complete stats, rank and upgrades would be successful especially if it was regularly updated and maintained.

I think your figures are a bit optimistic given WOW is the most successful game off all time and it comes nowhere near 40 million.

Take a look at the demographics for IL2 I bet most of the American Players are above the age of 30 with I'm sure a few exceptions here and there. EU players there are a lot more but not enough to get 40 million people playing.

The more popular games are MORPGS and RTSs for that matter. Even shooters don't have the volume of the later.

My point is even if you could be such a game I doubt they would come. WWII only interest a few out of the thousands of gamers.

Originally Posted by Bobb4

I have played guild wars, Navy fields, ADW, Il2, Armed Assault, BF2, BF2142, Falcon 4, Lomac, Prey, Crysis, COD4, DOD online. Offline, Warcraft in all it's incarnation, AGE of empires and the list goes on...
As for consoles replacing PC's I say 20 years ago who would have though mobile phones would be available to everyone... Wher technology is heading is anyones guess. But anyone ignorning 1.4 billion users is an idiot.
Five to six years from now WOW will be one of hundreds of titles competing for the biggest market in the world.

Publishers and Developers aren't ignoring the numbers. What may surprise you is there is a very large untapped segment out there that is just now coming into the sights of these companies. Want to know who that is?

Women.... Game developers and Publishers are all to aware of the guys and what they like. What they got a glimps (SIMS) of was women play too. I can assure you women aren't interested in a 1.93 Ata 109k4 vs a +25 Spit MK IX matchup.

So that's whats missing from your equation.

[robtek]

whats missing is the sense of this thread.
it reminds me of a pissing-contest
who really cares in this forum what other games people are playing???
and it is that to reach more people you have to be less sophisticated, isn´t it?

[Bobb4]

Originally Posted by robtek

whats missing is the sense of this thread.
it reminds me of a pissing-contest
who really cares in this forum what other games people are playing???
and it is that to reach more people you have to be less sophisticated, isn´t it?

Point taken lol

[JG27CaptStubing]

Originally Posted by robtek

whats missing is the sense of this thread.
it reminds me of a pissing-contest
who really cares in this forum what other games people are playing???
and it is that to reach more people you have to be less sophisticated, isn´t it?

It's not a pissing contests and some of the comments made in this thread are quite relevant. I'm not sure what the point of your comment is other than to flame people...

The point of the thread was to discuss just how popular IL2 is... I just gave a comparison of how it's not.

What I find odd about it is the fact most people don't understand how games are funded and what companies like UBI and 1C are willing to do. Yet people comment frequently about getting BOB to market.

[robtek]

Originally Posted by JG27CaptStubing

......The point of the thread was to discuss just how popular IL2 is... I just gave a comparison of how it's not. ......

I do not know how you read the title of this thread, i read population and not popular.

And yes, as more demanding a game gets as less popular it will be.
The average iq is reciprocal proportional to the number of people who get together.
Face it, we are the elite because we are so few!

No offense intended!!!

[HFC_Dolphin]

I guess some of you know nothing about economy. If it was like you're saying there would not be Lexus, but only Toyota in this world.
IL-2 and flight sims in general, may not be the most popular games in the world, but no one asked for this. I'm pretty sure that Oleg and his small team are more than happy with the money they've earned from this industry so far. They're not doing this for nothing. They do business in a niche market, that won't make them Bill Gates (but who else can be anyway?), but for sure they make a better living than most of the people here.

And you think that Ubi and other big corporations don't care about their product that much? Not in a million years. They made an excellent profit out of this product and they would be silly to not want to repeat this. And they're not silly, otherwise they would not be that high.

All in all, we all can understand that between starving and being Bill Gates there are lots of levels, and no one would demand being on the top otherwise to starve.

[Feuerfalke]

Comparing WoW to IL2 could be more comparing apples and oranges. I wonder how many people play WoW only offline?

So comparing the online-numbers of a 9 year old engine to a 3 year old massive-multiplayer-game is the same as saying there are only 30 people a day eating a pizza in the local restaurant, but millions eating each day at McDonalds worldwide.

That doesn't tell you anything about the quality of the food nor does it give you a basis of which is more likely to stay in business or if those making the food can live from the money they earn.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Originally Posted by HFC_Dolphin

I guess some of you know nothing about economy. If it was like you're saying there would not be Lexus, but only Toyota in this world.
IL-2 and flight sims in general, may not be the most popular games in the world, but no one asked for this. I'm pretty sure that Oleg and his small team are more than happy with the money they've earned from this industry so far. They're not doing this for nothing. They do business in a niche market, that won't make them Bill Gates (but who else can be anyway?), but for sure they make a better living than most of the people here.

And you think that Ubi and other big corporations don't care about their product that much? Not in a million years. They made an excellent profit out of this product and they would be silly to not want to repeat this. And they're not silly, otherwise they would not be that high.

All in all, we all can understand that between starving and being Bill Gates there are lots of levels, and no one would demand being on the top otherwise to starve.

"Excellent Profit" Relative to what? I agree for a WWII sim the product line is sucessful and part of the reason behind that line of though is all the addons throughout the years.

Actually there are very few Flight sims that are slated to come out and there is a reason for it. There was even rumor some time back that MS wouldn't release a new version of Flightsim for fear of the lack of numbers. Fortunately they went forward with it and FSX is a success.

If you doubt me go to your nearest Game Store and look at the shelves for PC games.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

Comparing WoW to IL2 could be more comparing apples and oranges. I wonder how many people play WoW only offline?

So comparing the online-numbers of a 9 year old engine to a 3 year old massive-multiplayer-game is the same as saying there are only 30 people a day eating a pizza in the local restaurant, but millions eating each day at McDonalds worldwide.

That doesn't tell you anything about the quality of the food nor does it give you a basis of which is more likely to stay in business or if those making the food can live from the money they earn.

Actually this your comment is incorrect. It's very relevant in the sense that companies are seeing the success of WOW and they are attemping to mimic it. WoW has broken the mold of how game companies can capture more revenue. That isn't to say WOW is the first. It's the first to be very successful at it.

In terms of quality I think you need to take a look at the list of Games put out by Blizzard. Having played WOW and a few other Titles like Star Craft War Craft 1 2 3 Blizzard bar none creates very high quality products.

If you think WOW is the McDonalds of the food industry you couldn't be farther from the truth. The quality and the depth of that game makes IL2 look pretty tiny. Granted totally different game different model different content but none the less WoW is not a crappy product. There is a reason why it's grown to 9.3 million people and it continues to grow.

I can't say the same for IL2.

I may be wrong but if you want to compare Apples and Apples take a look at the number of people still Playing Star Craft which is about as old as IL2 IRC. I think you will see there are more people playing it than IL2.

Just to comment about learning curve. Flight sims no doubt have a very large learning curve and equipment requirements that keep the Barrier of Entry pretty hard for some one new to get into. How do I know this? Look at the number of new players. Most of the guys playing are older and have been playing with Flight Sims since the 80s.

This barrier is going to be difficult to sell to a kid just picking up the game. That isn't to say there aren't any but in the US its pretty small compared to WOW. EU I think it's a different story.


Back OT.

The bottom line is we should be patient and be thankful that anyone is actually putting out a FS these days especially a WWII sim that will overshadow the reigning King of WWII sims IL2. Last time I checked it's the only new WWII PC based Flight sim expected.

[Feuerfalke]

You should read my post, JG27CaptStubing

I posted that selling numbers and quality are NOT related, nor do they say anything about the quality of food, nor did I compare the food presented by McDonalds to WoW.

What I did say, though, was that the numbers don't compare, because these two games WoW and IL2 couldn't be further apart, just like McDo and my local Pizza-Man, because WoW serves players worldwide and lives through the masses of players (hence MMO ) with literally no offline-value.
IL2 however is more like the Pizza-Man next door, who makes brilliant Pizza in a great variety and serving special wishes, but only for the few people who know this and who'd like to eat some pizza. And a lot of people will never be seen in the area of the my Pizza-Man, because they order and eat at home, just like many, many IL2-players won't ever go online.

It's numbers and area of customers, not quality, that I am speaking about (or numbers and genres, to come back to games).

Coming to quality, though, you are pretty selective with the choice of games you play and which you base your opinion upon. If you just play the games with the by far largest Budget, it's pretty clear you can't complain about the support, but there are other games published by Blizzard, too, and the overall-support and quality over the last 10 years is good, but surely not untouchable great.

IMHO it's not only the learning curve you mentioned. Infact I played IL2 with my 4 year old nephew with easy settings and he was quite good with it. But why should you invest 20 bucks or more for a medicore joystick to test a game, while you can play others with your mouse? And these mouse-controlled games like StarCraft and Warcraft are even shared and advertised by friends on LAN-parties!
The LAN-Parties I visited, I was the only one with a joystick... We've got to live with the fact that Flightsims are a Niche-Product, but knowing that, I'm even more impressed to see that SoW will bind virtual pilots from a lot of eras to a single product. That will indeed be a revolution, IMHO.