British FM killing the fun of the game for allied pilots.

[arthursmedley]

Originally Posted by MB_Avro_UK

I'm here to enjoy Cliffs of Dover. If Bue performs beter than Red in FM it doesn't bother me. And this Poll, although well meant, won't achieve anything.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro

Yes, I agree.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

The only thing 'killing' the game is unfounded claims

For example, note that no proof of any of the claims was provided!

Which is not to say the claims are false! Only that no proof was provided!

My point is simple

Based on 20+ years of flight simming.. Most claims of FM errors turn out to be pilot errors! So, unless your collecting real time data while performing these tests, any and all claims will remain unfounded

There are several C# scripts here that will collect test data during flight, FST has one, i.e.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=27552

And klem who made changes to FST's script has one, i.e.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33661

Now only do this if you want your claims to be taken seriously and if you want to provide useful feedback!

And don't stop there!

Next provide the real world data your using in your claims that such and such is too this or that.. Because without real world data claims of such and such being too this or that is pretty meaningless!

But if all you want to do is stir the RED vs. BLUE pot that please continue to make unfounded claims of FM errors!

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by OSSI

The Spitfire turns now better and dont lost energy as in real and you want turn better and want lost lower engery? Maybe we make the DM from bomber more worse too so 1 spit can shoot down 20 bomber in one time with his laserguns? The backgunner are now worse. In real a single fighter who attack a bomber formation wants to suicide.

Maybe you want a arcade sim? Oh we have one....!?!

I see what you mean, but I don't think you're entirely correct in your statement.

In the 1.07 beta for example, the Spitfire was really turning very good and it was very difficult to get the plane into high-speed stall which was plain wrong. Luckily, this has been resolved in 1.08. I believe the Spitfire overall characteristics have been changed in a good way, except for high speed roll-rate which is still way too high.

The Hurricane though is still a bit of a mess - the wing drops for no reason at all even at nice corner speed and there is no way you can get better turnrate than a Spitfire, which was the case in real life and it's well documented. Just an example regarding the turnrate while you mentioned that although the OP never mentioned it.

The OP is not very clear in the forst post, just mentiones RAF FMs in general and one has to agree for it's very frustrating for any pilots who try to fly these machines. Mind you the biggest problem is the overheating of the Merlins and the so called CEM characteristics - this has been changed quite a few times recently and on pretty random basis. I don't mind exploring the changes everytime I install the new beta patch but it's quite unpleasant to see that while some things are being fixed and addressed, others are being broken in the process - and they were alright before! It leads to funny situations like when you have to fly at auto lean mixture if you want to engage emergency power, which is hilarious but there we go. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the beta patches and I can see the devs are trying to improve things, but they are somehow not getting there. Have you tried fighting the enemy at 2200rpm csp? That does not make sense, but you have to do that otherwise you'll blow your engine up for no logical reason at all. At random altitudes, mind you. You are simply gonna die no matter what tactics you come up with... still fun. I am coping with that but I can tell you that it is really frustrating sometimes. Maybe difficult to see on the other side of the river where you can bang your Erhoehte Notleisung again and again and again and again.

I also like the general tweaks of the rudder response - this concerns all planes in new beta. It's still not perfect but much better than it was. Same with negative G and other tweaks. DM of the Spitfire needs lots of attention though, like wing thoughness and other important details like canopy drag, flaps behaviour etc etc etc.

In general, I very much agree with Notafinger! and vranac, I typed too much already but no matter how you look at it, the Reds have got it more difficult at the moment due to constant changes and more silly FM issues (e.g. aggressive overheating). In my opinion of course, based on my red and blue experience.

Let's better wait for next beta

[nynek]

Originally Posted by Nitrous

Thanks 1C for the improved stability from latest beta patch.
Please work hard on the British FM as its killing the enjoyment of the game for many allied pilots.

FM issues

Engine overheating
Loss of energy/momentum
Bad climb rates
Incorrect top speeds
Incorrect acceleration.

Originally Posted by Nitrous

Thanks 1C for the improved stability from latest beta patch.
Please work hard on the British FM as its killing the enjoyment of the game for many allied pilots.

FM issues

Engine overheating
Loss of energy/momentum
Bad climb rates
Incorrect top speeds
Incorrect acceleration.

As long as we will not have 50 plus bombers and half of that escort against 6 to 9 defenders this discussion is pointless. This is not formula 1 racing. Your average mechanic is not from McLaren group. What this sim tried very hard to forget from the beginning is tactics. Spitfire DIDN'T won the battle...radar did. One on one duel is only in the 15 seconds fighter pilot memory. I simply don't get it, why after REX, global mesh, 30 odd bombers in Mighty 8th or Rowans work we fucken go up, see from Paris to the Glasgow and cannot see buggie at 500 meters. MOST of us wouldn't pass ******* eye exam so how about leveling chances for everyone at spotting targets which is independent of hardware. Why anyone is ALLOWED to fly ALONE.....Online or off.
I went thru the phases.

Twisting joystick in open cockpit, Joint Ops school, closed cockpit and then waiting in HL for KG Alpha,nearmiss,Ament77,Starbo,sgt.Johnston and many more to take part in their coop missions.I don't give flying **** about grass or rivets on the Panzer III, what I need is continuation with more planes and some ORDER. One time Flanker35 told us that offline campaign is boring...I told Him, next time You land make sure ALL Your AI pilots land too....Flanker35 You were right about state of the game, at that time I was fanboy....I'm writing this cos somehow we've got sidetracked. One of us in the signature has this thing from Oleg about importance of pilot above the machine. I shot down him in La5 in vertical fight with his beloved Kurfürst...
some European server upper right corner ,small map and ping like 200-Vancouverite here.
Point is - to those table numbers armchair researchers - your data is for level flight ...the moment shit hits the fan is either 10 seconds or 3 minutes effort
and then usually somebody on either side will "TRY" to HELP YOU.
Sorry for crying but this thing reminds me moment when we switch from CFS3 to Sturmovik. As far as I'm concerned this game will need patch in the neighborhood of 10 Gigs something like UP or HSFX.

nynek

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by V.4_Pogi

It may not be appropriate for the flight model and this applies to both sides, but I do not think that would solve the problem so they can fly. I stress, my respect for the exception .

I am not entirely sure if I understand what you're saying here mate

Of course it applies to both sides. There are issues in RAF and LW fms. And we only discuss the fighters here...

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by nynek

As long as we will not have 50 plus bombers and half of that escort against 6 to 9 defenders this discussion is pointless.

I don't think you need 50 plus bombers to get the flight model of say Bf 109 (more) correct

[nynek]

Originally Posted by Robo.

I don't think you need 50 plus bombers to get the flight model of say Bf 109 (more) correct

And now tell me WHAT is correct ..tell me ,everybody and remember after enter it'll be cast in stone....go ahead

nynek

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by nynek

And now tell me WHAT is correct ..tell me ,everybody and remember after enter it'll be cast in stone....go ahead

nynek

As you might be aware of, all planes in the sim have got wrong top speeds and top ceiling. That would be, imho, something to start with. What you are saying about tactics, scale of operations is all nice, but completely independent from FMs as such.

[nynek]

Originally Posted by Robo.

As you might be aware of, all planes in the sim have got wrong top speeds and top ceiling. That would be, imho, something to start with. What you are saying about tactics, scale of operations is all nice, but completely independent from FMs as such.

Tell me WHEN did You shot down anything above let say 6 klicks?

nynek

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by nynek

Tell me WHEN did You shot down anything above let say 6 klicks?

nynek

I don't understand why are you asking this. Are you suggesting that the high altitude performance and correct FM regarding altitude (e.g. top ceiling) is not so important in a flight simulator?

But to answer your question - I almost always fly very high, no matter if RAF or LW and I happen to be shooting at e/a's in 6-7km (or 20k+) rather often. Why do you need to know and what does it has to do with anything discussed in tis thread?