4.11 overheat and engine damage test results

[WhistlinggDeath]

Thanks Papa, for the testing.

Seems valid to me (busy since I got back to work, but will test a few of your results randomly when time permits). I do see the 185 M-71 and La7 as being relatively unaffected by overheating (what country did this patch come from again?). Although, your spit 25lbs data is enlightening.

One critical note though:

Not only is it that the engines overheat very quickly now on the late war FWs, TA and P51, but also that the flight models (FM) for the FWs and TA have changed for the worse. In attempting to replicate to finer detail the late war models, Team D altered or neutered, several of the FWs and the TA H1. With the switcher, you can see a clear level flight speed reduction in the TA 152 H1 between 4.10.1 and 4.11. So, the complexing effect now of not only the overheats but the reduced flight models means the TA 152 and to a slightly lesser extent, the FWs are to a great or medium extent reduced in lethality. It is an emergent property that comes from a complex combination of the two effects (overheat and reduced flight models).

As to your comments Zorin, disagree. Focke Wulf pilots who dive down on a tight turning spit, go for a high deflection shot and then zoom climb back up another 1800m very close to stall speed are doing exactly what the FW was built for. That is not the sign of a rubbish pilot, it is the sign of upper level player who is comfortable in the flight envelope of Boom and Zoom. And they better be too, cause the spit 25lbs can on boost climb 1300m even from low IAS and shoot you in the tail. So you have to use boost and you have to climb right to apex stall speed. In zoom climb on 4.11, I can put the TA 152 H1 in severe overheat in one pass, in three I can smoke the engine. That does not concord with the historical record of this Kurt Tank killer.

KG Alpha - I cant see a reason why you felt you needed to close the other thread. Your comments about read what is in the 4.11 patch notes make no sense if you dont agree with the accuracy of the patch.

[WhistlinggDeath]

Also, there are only about ten people I can think of who can really put these flight models (from 4.10.1 or 4.11) right to the wall, and test things to the last one or two percent. Some dont fly now, so I will list the four or five I still seeing flying online, and perhaps gather their opinions as well.

=TRIDENT= (russian guy, full real... Master)
357th_ULTI (Swedish guy, full real .... high level Master)
FI_RAMBO (American guy, full real .... approaching Master)
JG27_Tazu (full real, ... approaching Master but often flies as a team)
somthing like CM_Shuan (English, flies usually Tempy, high level veteran)
AFJ_Panther (American, full real .... Master)

I know another five to ten guys but they dont fly any more or not enough to be truly dangerous. Check these guys for their opinions as well.

[jermin]

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

As to your comments Zorin, disagree. Focke Wulf pilots who dive down on a tight turning spit, go for a high deflection shot and then zoom climb back up another 1800m very close to stall speed are doing exactly what the FW was built for. That is not the sign of a rubbish pilot, it is the sign of upper level player who is comfortable in the flight envelope of Boom and Zoom. And they better be too, cause the spit 25lbs can on boost climb 1300m even from low IAS and shoot you in the tail. So you have to use boost and you have to climb right to apex stall speed. In zoom climb on 4.11, I can put the TA 152 H1 in severe overheat in one pass, in three I can smoke the engine. That does not concord with the historical record of this Kurt Tank killer.

I guess he seldom flies BnZ online in dogfight servers, so please forgive his lacking knowledge of air combat tactics.

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

KG Alpha - I cant see a reason why you felt you needed to close the other thread. Your comments about read what is in the 4.11 patch notes make no sense if you dont agree with the accuracy of the patch.

+1

[MicroWave]

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

...

Seems valid to me (busy since I got back to work, but will test a few of your results randomly when time permits). I do see the 185 M-71 and La7 as being relatively unaffected by overheating (what country did this patch come from again?). Although, your spit 25lbs data is enlightening.

...

We have members from all over the World, true Empire under the Sun.
Another piss into the wind comment by you.
Get your act together and someone might listen to you.

[JG27_PapaFly]

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

Focke Wulf pilots who dive down on a tight turning spit, go for a high deflection shot and then zoom climb back up another 1800m very close to stall speed are doing exactly what the FW was built for.

I know exactly what you mean, WD, I've done gazzillion of zoomclmbs just the way you describe them. However, I doubt that WW2 FW, or any energy pilots for that matter, actually zoomed until very close to stall. I think they stopped their zooms earlier, probably at or even above best climb speed, because of following reasons:

1) Tactical considerations: being very slow at the very top of a zoombclimb one is extremely vulnerable. In those days, one never had the full situational awareness or controlled situations that we enjoy here. There was always the danger of a wildcard bandit doinking you at the top of your zoom. One example comes to mind: Bubi Hartmann scored one of his last kills on a Yak pilot who was part of a larger formation and was performing a looping, maybe in celebration of the nearing victory over Hitler. Bubi knocked the Yak out unseen, while it was slow and on its back, at the apex of the loop. Ingame i reserve maximum zoomclimbs to controlled situations where i am absolutely sure that nobody's going to sneak up on me. And i especially do so since the spit25lbs are around, these beasts can zoomclimb from ridiculously slow speeds and knock you out with a spray from 600m below you while you are very slow and reversing.

2) Plane controllability. A maximum zoomclimb calls for a reversal at very slow speed, this being a hammerhead or humpty-bumb. Now there are a few aerobatic maneuvers I've never ever seen a warbird do in reality: the tailslide, the hammerhead, the humpty-bump at very slow speed. All these maneuvers bear the risk of loosing control and spinning. I don't think that real warbirds have a controllability similar to our simulated planes in those conditions. FWs and mustangs had very harsh loaded power on stall characteristics. If i remember correctly, mustang pilots were advised never to slow down below 350kph when encountering FWs.

3) Engine overheat.

Most bnz attacks those days were hit and run. I've never read an account where pilots have repeatedly boomed-and-zoomed the same defensive opponent, going up and down as is often done ingame. The greatest asset of a fighter pilot was, will always be - surprize. After the first attack that advantage is gone.

[JG27_PapaFly]

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

JG27_Tazu (full real, ... approaching Master but often flies as a team)

LOL glad you like JG27_Tazzu. I'm his and JG27_Tzon's teacher

[jermin]

Instead of some foul words like this, I'd like to see some real-life references from TD to proof what he said was that ridiculous.

Sent from my Milestone using Tapatalk

[WhistlinggDeath]

Originally Posted by MicroWave

We have members from all over the World, true Empire under the Sun.
Another piss into the wind comment by you.
Get your act together and someone might listen to you.

No disrespect, but if we are being honest, in the few (about six encounters) instances where I have met a development member of Team D whose name I can associate with an online callsign, while fighting online, they were flying late war spits and the 185 M-71.

There were only three 185s ever built during the whole of WWII, correct ?

[swiss]

Originally Posted by jermin

I guess he seldom flies BnZ online in dogfight servers, so please forgive his lacking knowledge of air combat tactics.
+1

I just made at least 5 Hammerheads in the h1, 5k-2k-5k-and so, on without the temp ever going over the 10 o'clock position.
Just switch wep off once in while, you'll have to reduce throttle anyway when you reach peak.

Maybe you can supply ntrk so other ppl can reproduce your findings.

[WhistlinggDeath]

As to your comments Papa, I like em. I cant verify though whether real WWII pilots actually took it to a full apex climb very often. (I suspect, they did not, because no air force sent out lone wolfs on a hunt, lol. They likely flew just as JG27 does online in Grij Dedicado. In 2 to 5 plane flights commanded by a major and using team tactics. As correct as I suspect you are, reducing the FW flight models, puts a major dent in their lethality using 4.11, unless you really do fly always as a team (where one guy can always be cooling his engine , while another dives, and so on, ...).