The Ultimate Question -- Ext Views vs Locked Cockpit

[MD_Titus]

Originally Posted by dduff442

This came up again in the weekly update thread and I thought I'd throw in an unfashionable point of view: external views are great. I've nothing against closed-cockpit servers -- they're certainly more realistic but this doesn't translate to more challenging or interesting.

External views + wonderwoman view allow for a (potentially) perfect dogfight where flight characteristics and technique are key. There's less randomness and the encounters actually look better. I'd never play an offline with external views active but a quick and easy 1 on 1 is great fun. Online with external views is great as well. 1-on-1 online has given me my greatest Il-2 memories.

dduff

Let the rage begin -->

tbh i go for cockpit on and externals on. middle of the road, fun and gives a sense of flying different aircraft, have to use the instruments etc etc. mainly use externals for looking around myself in flight, padlocking friendlies (a bit more realistic that f6 as it gives a simulation of being able to recognise friendlies as quick as an experienced pilot might) and finding those pesky ground targets.

and, as you say, no pit boils it down to dogfighting, in that there is no being surprised by, or surprising, the opposition.

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

No rage here mate!
As I said in the other thread; when online I prefer it, coz it's fun to do; and as you say, the view is grand.
This doesn't mean I'm a beginner, or a less than capable virtual 'pilot'.
I will have to try full cockpit online though, just to compare...........

crucial
you'll find the difference is that you spend a lot more time swerving around, clearing your six and scanning the sky. it does lead to an increase in tension, and elation at spotting someone, tracking them in their blind spot and blowing them to kingdom come without them having seen you.

Originally Posted by Chivas

Off-line use whatever view system you prefer. In on-line war servers I much prefer a closed cockpit. All the outside views provide to much information about enemy movements which totally kills immersion.

only if you use them as such. just because they are there doesn't mean you have to use the f2 then f6/ground unit lock thing to get a padlock on distant targets.

but then, doing so means that you aren't pratting around in a remote section of the map when the enemy is doing exactly the same in an entirely different portion of sky, on a half empty server... fumbling around for each other fruitlessly isn't that much fun. it becomes pretty much redundant if the server is busy or action is focussed around targets, and becomes a hindrance and fun-killer for bombers and jabos of course.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by dduff442

I more or less share your enthusiasm regarding attention to AI, but I think that perfect artificial horizons are a little too artificial. Even a single parameter -- a limit on the turn rate for a given instrument -- would be useful and easily done.

Likewise, less-than-perfect altimeters would seem to go hand in hand with dynamic weather. Remember that ground control may be able to tell you the pressure at ground level but they won't be able to tell you exact conditions over the target. This would be a serious concern for, e.g., Mosquito pilots on an Oboe-assisted bomb run when impact with the ground might be a serious concern. A drop of even 50m in the cloud base could also have serious consequences.

This seems trivial to implement once the weather system's already done, IMO. I'd support the idea of making these optional in the difficulty settings.

Night time is potentially a *whole new game* -- a whole new genre in fact. 40s technology is fascinating; it's quaint and baffling at the same time.

Broadly speaking, I'm all for granting CPU-intensive stuff similar priority to GPU-intensive stuff in the sim.

dduff

Agree on all counts. Managing the aircraft sub-systems effectively does have a direct impact in your ability to perform combat tasks, hence it's not irrelevant. Difficult? Sure. Deserving separate on/off switches in the difficulty options? Definitely. But not irrelevant for a combat sim, not by a long shot.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Agree on all counts. Managing the aircraft sub-systems effectively does have a direct impact in your ability to perform combat tasks, hence it's not irrelevant. Difficult? Sure. Deserving separate on/off switches in the difficulty options? Definitely. But not irrelevant for a combat sim, not by a long shot.

This. A fight MIGHT come down to how fast you can turn your plane, but getting to that point should be more difficult than pulling on the stick. At least the option should be there for those of us that want it (hopefully).

At my age (I'm not that old lol) I've learned that I will never have the fast-twitch skills of a 17 year old that has 7 hours to spend playing the game every day. Any success and enjoyment I have had in other games has come mainly from teamwork and being able to 'out think" the other guy. The devil (and enjoyment) is in the details for me.

Splitter

[Azimech]

Yeah I feel it too... reflexes are way down... at 33!

[MD_Titus]

but odds on familiarity and experience counteract the loss of reflexes, to a greater or lesser degree.

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by MD_Titus

but odds on familiarity and experience counteract the loss of reflexes, to a greater or lesser degree.

Oh yes! There is no substitute for experience.

Face off on a young guy (with a similar ping) in a one on one, surprise encounter in a first person shooter, and the advantage is his. He is probably a couple hundredths of a seconds quicker.

In a vehicle, things are different (real life too lol). There is a whole 'nother level of strategy and tactics. Plus, being able to predict the opposition's actions. That all comes with experience.

In my last gaming clan, the old guys did the strategies. Whenever we got a new map we were usually ahead of the opposing team. Of course, the young guys in our clan had to make up for our lack of skillz when the shooting started .

BTW, for the other old timers, I am convinced that gaming keeps you young in ways. If you don't practice with your reflexes, they fail quicker. And then you are relegated to playing Minesweeper .

I say all of that to say this: my guess is that there is a bit of an age gap as to who wants what in terms of realism (just a guess). The younger people probably want something that focuses more on the combat and shooting and graphics. The older guys probably want more "flight sim" realism. So maybe we all just tend to play to our strengths?

Splitter

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Azimech

I always use the cockpit but in offline play I'm aware that the AI uses Omnivision so I have a disadvantage.

The AI has no engine overheat, THAT pisses me of far worse.
But then again I, don't play offline.

[WTE_Galway]

What would be awesome is to allow Wonder Woman view but also make you much more vulnerable to pilot kills from headon because there is no engine in the way to absorb the hits.

[Azimech]

LOL

Yeah, maybe only hairspray.

[Erkki]

Full switch, Everything else is waste of time...

With ext views allowed, anyone with normal hand-eye coordination can easily achieve perfect SA. The game becomes a silly climbrace. Its anything but what real air war was.

EDIT: and no I dont use TrackIR.