4.11 - AI debugging

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Jumpy

I think you are risking making the game too easy. Sometimes I laugh at the wingman. "who's side is he on?!" Personally, if the AI always attacked and removed threats to my 6o'clock, I might become bored and leave the game. I don't see the point. I just like trying to outfly my attacker. What I suggest is that we are able to jump to another plane if we are shot down. That would be fun, or perhaps even jump to the wingman's aircraft while our original aircraft becomes AI controlled. Then you could personally attack or chase off the attacker, and then resume control of your original aircraft. A bit like co-op play, I guess. Comments?

I totally disagree.. How would having your wingman attack one of the 1,2,3 or sometimes 4 planes attacking you at once make it easier? You still have to down the bandit you are chasing because if you don't .. he will turn the tables on you and go on the offensive .. even inmost cases if he is damaged so I don't see that making things easier at all and you will still have another plane on you... I cannot tell you how many times I get caught in a 3 or 4 way crossfire while the other members of my flight are literally just flying around.. Sometimes as it has been said by others the plane shooting me will be between my wingman and me.. which just should not be period. Often the wingman will not respond until I am down or am going down with a blown off wing.. then he goes on the offensive. That should not be if the bandit is between he and I. As I said .. there have been times when the friendlies have been spot on.. but more often than not hat is not the case. But enough of that.. I am sure TD knows what the deal is (as far as the problem.. the solution may be more elusive) so I am getting off this soapbox for now.. Hopefully in the next patch .. which also hopefully will not be too much longer, or shortly thereafter some of this will be addressed.

[Lagarto]

Originally Posted by Jumpy

Fly very low and hug the contours of the ground

That's usually enough to shake off pesky attackers. Not long ago I was trying to get back to base in a badly shot-up machine, with three AI on my tail. After a few twists and turns they all crashed, one by one. Not very realistic but, as fan boys used to say, "you can't model everything"

[Bearcat]

Yes that works sometimes.. Other times I have had them chase me all the way back to base.. but that I can live with.. Like I said.. enemy AI is not my issue.. I think they are fine.. much MUCH im,proved.. they don't do that climb to the sun maneuver ... they actually stall out if trying to turn too sharply.. the enemy AI is FANTASTIC compared to what it was in 4.0 .. I am confident that TD will address this or do their best to.. So far I have not been let down by any update we have had and I realize that these guys have real lives and day jobs and that this is largely a labor of love and I appreciate it like I know most of the folks who come here do.....

[robday]

Originally Posted by UWBurn

For the next patch would be nice to see some improvement in the AI behavior related to escorts and multi-flight formations. Currently, when you place a bomber flight, and an0ther bomber flight is placed to form up on the first one (assigning the lead flight as a target on the various waypoints) everything is fine. If a fighter flight is to form up on a bomber flight they start a sweep escort over them, this might be ok, but not always convenient (i.e. long escorts over large bomber formations didn't sweeped, often just flew beside). The same applies to fighter tasked to form up on another fighter flight: the start to sweep over the leading flight. To avoid this one have to manually place the waypoints, accuratley timing them so that the various flights loosely fly togheter.
Having a more advanced waypoint option (something like the patrol and take off ones added in 4.11), allowing to specify how to form up on the targeted flight would be really welcome for me, allowing to build more complex large formations without spending A LOT of time testing he missions to ensure the AI fly together and don't collide each other.

Recently I have been playing a campaign (offline) in the Bf110 G2 over the Kuban map and have found that the aircraft exhibit different behaiviours dependant on loadout. Flying as second man in the second element of the formation, if the loadout is the Bk3.7 gunpod and the mission task is ground attack, the second element will take up the "escort pattern" over the first flight. When enemy fighters are encountered the whole formation go haring after the fighters (despite the fact that we are escorted by four Bf109,s). After this engagement the survivors proceed to target but the second element will not attack the target. If we are loaded with bombs the second element flys alongside the first and when encountering fighters simply leaves the 109,s to go after the soviet fighters, whilst proceding to target to make the attack.
Is there some way to ensure that if the mission task is ground attack the members of your group will stick to the mision objective?

[Juri_JS]

At the moment I am building a mission with Ju-87B2 and Swordfish in it, both aren't carrying bombs. To my surprise the Swordfish are attacking the Stukas. I tested the mission with other ground attack plane types and all are showing the same behaviour, except the Ju-87B2, which acts like a normal bomber.

So my questions is, is there a way to stop the AI of ground attack aircraft from attacking other bombers? If not, would it be possible to add an option in FMB that can stop the AI of a flight group from engaging other planes?

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Fall_Pink?

- fighters escorts that engage, then disengage and fly away, higher and higher. Then turn back in a very long dive at high speed or disengage completely and move on to their next waypoint.

I made some changes in that regard, can you post your problematic mission so I can test if the problem is fixed.

- Jabo's that attack and make a pass at their target, then slightly zoom up again and want to make a hard left or right bank and steeply downwards for a second pass. This second move brings them very close to the ground and they sometimes crash.

I'm aware of that but I don't know what is the exact cause of that, I'll check it when I find time.

Originally Posted by Jumpy

Three things That I would like fixed.

1. AI bombers don't maintain level on bomb run.

2. Also jettisoning their bomb load when attacked is unrealistic.

3. The last thing is probably just my opinion, but I think it unrealistic that the AI crews fly happily along in an aircraft that is streaming flame.

1. Not a priority.
2. Are you talking about bombers or fighters with bombs?
3. I'll check that, they should bail when on fire.

Originally Posted by D-XXI

Often, when Í'm way out of visibility range, they ignore other planes from my side and start chasing my plane all the way to my home airfield.

AI doesn't target player specifically but I see how it could happen that they "all" go after you. There will be some changes in 4.12.

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I would be happy if my wingman/flight just attacked the plane chasing me when I ask for cover or I ask for help from anyone....

In 4.11 if you want your AI to be aggressive you have to issue "Attack" command first. So when you see enemy order "Attack" to wingmen and follow it with "CoverMe", that way Wingman will behave same as enemy AI. Another possible "problem" is how your Wingman assess the danger. That depend on skill and Rookies will let the enemy in your tail while Aces will be lot more aggressive. Anyway, some changes have been made for 4.12 already and in addition there will be more Orders options in Comms menu.

Originally Posted by robday

Recently I have been playing a campaign (offline) in the Bf110 G2 over the Kuban map and have found that the aircraft exhibit different behaiviours dependant on loadout.

Correct, sometimes AI behavior depend on loadout. If two flights are in the mission and second have first one as a target than the second one will behave as escort if it doesn't have bombs or rockets. In case that second flight have offensive weapons than it will act as a flight in formation with the first one.

Is there some way to ensure that if the mission task is ground attack the members of your group will stick to the mision objective?

Not really. I must add new parameter for behavior enforcement. Best you can do now is to be very creative in mission design.

Originally Posted by Juri_JS

At the moment I am building a mission with Ju-87B2 and Swordfish in it, both aren't carrying bombs. To my surprise the Swordfish are attacking the Stukas. I tested the mission with other ground attack plane types and all are showing the same behaviour, except the Ju-87B2, which acts like a normal bomber.

So my questions is, is there a way to stop the AI of ground attack aircraft from attacking other bombers? If not, would it be possible to add an option in FMB that can stop the AI of a flight group from engaging other planes?

Planes that are categorized as Attack planes in the game will attack other non-fighter planes unless they are carrying offensive weapons.

It's possible to add new option. When? I don't know.

[Alien]

Not only jabos drop bombs when attacked. I play a QMB mission now to practice shooting (Crimea, low altitude, my advantage, 4 Il-2m3s + 3 Il-2s 3rd series and me in a Bf 109G-6) and every time I am next to the Ilyushins, they dump their bombs. IMO, they should do it when they're badly shot, unless they are already flying coffins (my attacks usually end up with a tailless Il-2 spinning to the ground after a single very short burst from a 20-50m distance, just like the experts hunted ). So it isn't just fighters' case, it's a common problem, especially in the eastern front.

[Bearcat]

I don't know if this has been asked but do the AI black out? If so how come I will be going in a dive to follow an AI.. we are not closing.. in fact sometimes he is pulling away... he turns .. I turn.. I black out... he zooms up .. gets on my 6 and nails me.. Do they black out?

[Lagarto]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I don't know if this has been asked but do the AI black out? If so how come I will be going in a dive to follow an AI.. we are not closing.. in fact sometimes he is pulling away... he turns .. I turn.. I black out... he zooms up .. gets on my 6 and nails me.. Do they black out?

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who minds it. AI certainly don't black out, which gives them unrealistic advantage.

[Mundschenk]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I don't know if this has been asked but do the AI black out? If so how come I will be going in a dive to follow an AI.. we are not closing.. in fact sometimes he is pulling away... he turns .. I turn.. I black out... he zooms up .. gets on my 6 and nails me.. Do they black out?

Thanks God I'm not the only one who is annoyed by this. A fix of that issue would be awesome!