Proper Path before Demonis?

[Xargon]

Originally Posted by ckdamascus

If you use a Valkyrie for their ability, they say "can't ask me again in 15 battles". Or something.

The lvl 2 medal lowers this by 1 to 14.

However, I can't see the current tick, or remember how many rounds it was the LAST time I asked. I swear the number of rounds they say changes each time to something higher...

Are you sure about this? I think it does indeed reduce rest time in battles. That warrior skill reduces only the Olaf rage skill rest time (and valkyrie rest times display one less than they actually have) and the valkyrie medal decreases those rest times, I believe... I won't get around to testing this conclusively right now, but maybe someone else has already done it? And yes, I think the rest time of dialogue abilities increases by one or something like that each time you use it.

[namad]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

It's a weird thing. You lose all your viking units in the Dark Portal incident, but then get a pretty large selection. Just do the 'port' question from the guy as soon as you arrive in Greenwort, and that'll give you a boat to explore these other lands with. No problemo.

I may actually have to try playing through using Orcs. See how that goes.

i'd love to play through using orcs, but how do you do it? where can you recruit them?

the first 4islands are 75-90% viking recruits and then the first 3areas of the main continent are 60-80% human recruits! where's my random crossworlds game style

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by namad

i'd love to play through using orcs, but how do you do it? where can you recruit them?

the first 4islands are 75-90% viking recruits and then the first 3areas of the main continent are 60-80% human recruits! where's my random crossworlds game style

You can do the port quest in Arlania before clearing any of it, and I think without any fights. Do it, and travel to the Isles of Freedom (Kitano has the map) and you can get orc troops from then on. Not exactly the 'entire' game through, since first 4 islands are still mostly viking, but not too bad.

[Saridu]

It's strange, the first four viking islands are very rigid , we all felt railroaded and forced to use less than great viking units (okay I'll make an exception for soothsayers - that loki's touch ability is fantastic! - but usless against the hordes of undead good design).

But once you get to Darion, the game suddenly opens up and you can get human, viking, elves and orcs with some dwarves thrown in, with as little as one quest gate!

Strange approach, I think they were trying to build authenticity (Vikings fight with a viking army!) - and make no loss more challenging (if that's your thing) by making the vikings crappy is comparison to the other races.

I mean who arrived it Darion and thought, hah Rune mages, Royal griffens and Paladins! Who needs them, I' going back to the homeland for another full army of vikings!

Before i get bashed just pointing out that the vikings aren't imho a good balanced army, I would takes even dwarves any day over them. Now maidens are good - if you can get them in sufficent numbers, soothsayers as I said above are good for the Loki's touch, Jarls are okay as tanks go but numbers again could be a problem, I've seen 30ish can't see it been viable (Note I haven't played past Demonis so I don't know if the Viking islands replenish at that point) - I would take Royal Griffens over them in a heartbeat (even with the bugged morale bonus to humans)

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by Saridu

It's strange, the first four viking islands are very rigid , we all felt railroaded and forced to use less than great viking units (okay I'll make an exception for soothsayers - that loki's touch ability is fantastic! - but usless against the hordes of undead good design).

But once you get to Darion, the game suddenly opens up and you can get human, viking, elves and orcs with some dwarves thrown in, with as little as one quest gate!

Strange approach, I think they were trying to build authenticity (Vikings fight with a viking army!) - and make no loss more challenging (if that's your thing) by making the vikings crappy is comparison to the other races.

I mean who arrived it Darion and thought, hah Rune mages, Royal griffens and Paladins! Who needs them, I' going back to the homeland for another full army of vikings!

Before i get bashed just pointing out that the vikings aren't imho a good balanced army, I would takes even dwarves any day over them. Now maidens are good - if you can get them in sufficent numbers, soothsayers as I said above are good for the Loki's touch, Jarls are okay as tanks go but numbers again could be a problem, I've seen 30ish can't see it been viable (Note I haven't played past Demonis so I don't know if the Viking islands replenish at that point) - I would take Royal Griffens over them in a heartbeat (even with the bugged morale bonus to humans)

I generally agree on most points. It was weird they put things on rails for a good chunk of the initial gameplay, and then suddenly let you go pretty much wild (though not completely).

I don't think they INTENTIONALLY made the vikings bad. They actually have a decent group of units:

Skald, Berserker, Soothsayer, Jarl, Maiden

That's a pretty decent force. Jarls tank, Maidens and Berserkers do good damage, soothsayer and resurrect are solid, skald supports. Heck, Jotuns are a complete beefcake unit if you want to load them up, though they aren't particularly good other than that.

The issue really, is that the Human units are INCREDIBLY strong now. Royal Griffons + Paladins was already a good strong combination before the degenerate rune mage unit was added. As cool as the Maidens are, Paladin's are that, plus a total tank, and do AoE heals, which are often more valuable.

Heck, even the human Bowmen is much much stronger than most other archers, due to its ability to slow, chill, and burn targets, depending on the need of the scenario.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

The issue really, is that the Human units are INCREDIBLY strong now. Royal Griffons + Paladins was already a good strong combination before the degenerate rune mage unit was added. As cool as the Maidens are, Paladin's are that, plus a total tank, and do AoE heals, which are often more valuable.

Yes, I agree Viking units are not bad at all, Soothsayers are incredibly strong in later stages (Loki's Touch is the best spell ever and they also do terrific damage with their blizzard AND their range attack). Berserkers can win most battles almost on their own, if you don't mind ressing and replenish them all the time, Maidens and Jarls are also great. Vikings, Jotuns and the slingshot guys are average but not bad. And I've never used Skalds, they seem like a waste of slot (but I can be wrong). So Vikings - great.

Yes, Humans are powerful but frankly, I grew a bit tired of Paladins and Royal Griffins over the last three KB games. Moreover Paladin ressing is great but bit of a hassle. You always need a turn extra to huddle your units around Pals.

In CW I much preferred an elf army with lots of spawns, shooters, charmers and non-retaliation melee units. Of course in WoTN the Humans are much more convenient because they're ideal for fighting the undead whereas the elves suck at that.

[Dragnipurake]

Originally Posted by namad

i'd love to play through using orcs, but how do you do it? where can you recruit them?

the first 4islands are 75-90% viking recruits and then the first 3areas of the main continent are 60-80% human recruits! where's my random crossworlds game style

You can purchase all Orcish units from the 'Mysterious Parcel', which can be obtained the moment you have access to Arlania. Check out the Mysterious Parcel thread for more details.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by namad

i'd love to play through using orcs, but how do you do it? where can you recruit them?

the first 4islands are 75-90% viking recruits and then the first 3areas of the main continent are 60-80% human recruits! where's my random crossworlds game style

You can also purchase orcs on the Freedom Islands which come fairly early in the game (check with Kitano).

[namad]

Originally Posted by Karlos

Yes, I agree Viking units are not bad at all, Soothsayers are incredibly strong in later stages (Loki's Touch is the best spell ever and they also do terrific damage with their blizzard AND their range attack). Berserkers can win most battles almost on their own, if you don't mind ressing and replenish them all the time, Maidens and Jarls are also great. Vikings, Jotuns and the slingshot guys are average but not bad. And I've never used Skalds, they seem like a waste of slot (but I can be wrong). So Vikings - great.

Yes, Humans are powerful but frankly, I grew a bit tired of Paladins and Royal Griffins over the last three KB games. Moreover Paladin ressing is great but bit of a hassle. You always need a turn extra to huddle your units around Pals.

In CW I much preferred an elf army with lots of spawns, shooters, charmers and non-retaliation melee units. Of course in WoTN the Humans are much more convenient because they're ideal for fighting the undead whereas the elves suck at that.

loki's touch has a limit of ~80% of the leadership of your stack so if you're facing off against a lot of strong/very strong/deadly enemies it'll be almost useless (like if you're doing a mage impossible playthrough) although on a skald-normal playthrough I can imagine it being the best ability in the game! (the ai is borked and basically treats the rabid unit as if it's hypnotized and wastes all of it's turns attacking it all out like a fool)

compare to some of the weaker elf abilities working on 150% leadership, or infinite leadership and it seems a bit stronger even if the effects are weak (1 turn of fighting, or a few turns of sleep) then engineer's blind is infinite leadership and aoe!

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by namad

loki's touch has a limit of ~80% of the leadership of your stack so if you're facing off against a lot of strong/very strong/deadly enemies it'll be almost useless (like if you're doing a mage impossible playthrough) although on a skald-normal playthrough I can imagine it being the best ability in the game! (the ai is borked and basically treats the rabid unit as if it's hypnotized and wastes all of it's turns attacking it all out like a fool)

compare to some of the weaker elf abilities working on 150% leadership, or infinite leadership and it seems a bit stronger even if the effects are weak (1 turn of fighting, or a few turns of sleep) then engineer's blind is infinite leadership and aoe!

True, on Impossible it would probably be close to useless. But on my first Normal playthrough it was magnificent, precisely because the rabid stack becomes the top priority for the AI.

As for the elf CC abilities, AFAIK they don't work on undead (charm, sleep etc.) that's why elves suck at fighting the horde (also ranged attacks are weak against skeleton archers and ghosts and poison damage is weak on all undead). And I've never tried the engineer, does blinding work on undead?