Should jets explode?

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Fearfactor

No, because fuel vapour from fuels in the jet fuel/kerosene/diesel family are not explosive even in vapour form. And you are on the Daidalos team? This is truly sad.....

Don't you like his cockpits?

[JtD]

While knowledge about fuel explosions is no mandatory knowledge for membership in TD, I'm glad he's a member.

However, he's right and you are not. Kerosin and diesel fuel vapours are highly explosive. This is how a Diesel engine works in the first place, and if you doubt Kerosin / Jet explosions you might want to google TWA flight 800.

[Aviar]

I decided to research this topic a few days ago but changed my mind about posting. However, I will note some observations.

In researching, I found a number of references to Me-262's exploding during the refueling process. I also came across several pilot accounts of 262's exploding during dogfights.

So, take that as you will. I'm sure more experts on the subject can shed some light on this.

*My own gut feeling tells me this ----> Jet Fuel + War = BOOM!

Aviar

[ElAurens]

Originally Posted by JtD

While knowledge about fuel explosions is no mandatory knowledge for membership in TD, I'm glad he's a member.

However, he's right and you are not. Kerosin and diesel fuel vapours are highly explosive. This is how a Diesel engine works in the first place, and if you doubt Kerosin / Jet explosions you might want to google TWA flight 800.

Yes, a spark from a fuel pump (or a valve, cannot remember) exploded the tank and brought the aircraft down.

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

In a real plane, in a real war, if it were on fire, you would get out of it as fast as you could. Only gamers with no fear of death ride a fireball to the front lines.

That is the point of contention with many, many hotly argued issues in the forums. Gamers with no fear of death would do a lot of things in IL-2 1946 that they wouldn't do in an identical real-world situation.

[RPS69]

Yes, accidents happens, and errors with aviation fuel of any kind, could bring hell anywhere. But the main thing here is the engines getting instantly on fire and exploding, for just a bit of excess fuel. The main effect of this, is bringing the turbine to an overheat.
But if you cut the fuel, you get a more than fair chance of starting again without more consequences than diminsihing the engines life, or just burning more fuel than needed.
Here and now, is a digital thing. Move the thrust too fast, and it goes BOOM! This effect was allways a bit on the exagerated part.
The 262 was not put into flying without testing. It was a whole program with almost 5 years sinjce engines development.
And also you may find reports about accidents with them, but nothing as sistematich as it is in game.

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by RPS69

Yes, accidents happens, and errors with aviation fuel of any kind, could bring hell anywhere. But the main thing here is the engines getting instantly on fire and exploding, for just a bit of excess fuel. The main effect of this, is bringing the turbine to an overheat.
But if you cut the fuel, you get a more than fair chance of starting again without more consequences than diminsihing the engines life, or just burning more fuel than needed.
Here and now, is a digital thing. Move the thrust too fast, and it goes BOOM! This effect was allways a bit on the exagerated part.
The 262 was not put into flying without testing. It was a whole program with almost 5 years sinjce engines development.
And also you may find reports about accidents with them, but nothing as sistematich as it is in game.

Reading this, one is left little room to think anything other than that you're assuming the source of a fire or explosion is always from the engine.

[RPS69]

Originally Posted by Treetop64

Reading this, one is left little room to think anything other than that you're assuming the source of a fire or explosion is always from the engine.

You are talking about what?
Did you EVER flyed the 262 in game?
I ASSUME you don't!

Did you at least know on what is based the in game 262 taking on fire?
On the release of 262, long before 1946, in the il2 manual explained what were the game considerations about it.

It was stated that the excess fuel sent to the engine before it reached 60% power could drain into the carenate, and ignite there. This is what is simulated in il2.

Any other consideratios on what is happening in the sim, are just speculations. If you want to speculate about any other kind of accidents, that are not stated as simulated, create your own thread.

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by Fearfactor

...then your 262 should never explode after it catches on fire. It should burn like crazy but not explode....I'm starting this debate, please post your opinion if you care to.

Well, the upper wing surfaces of many Yak-9s weren't supposed to peel off in flight. They should stay tightly glued to the wing structure like crazy, not peel off. But they did peel off. The obvious culprit would be the quality of the glue bonding the wing skin to the structure. Turned out that the camouflage paint on the wings contained an unauthorized substitute ingredient that interacted negatively with the glue, which BTW was applied correctly. In the meantime, the wing structure was redesigned and strengthened. The point is that just because something shouldn't happen in a design doesn't mean that it won't, and the cause isn't always the most obvious one.

You started this "debate", and I'm caring to post my opinion, so don't go flaming me for taking up your invitation.

[RPS69]

Maybe Fearfactor didn't give this topic a good start.

But he has a point. On FB release, I didn't cared much about it.
Still, right now after a lot of more reading on the subject, I know it is somewhat exaggerated.

Jumos B engines, being a cheaper version of the Jumo A, got this problem. But on those engines if you pull back the throttle, the engine will flame out.
So, some fire may start, but it will start in a non enclosed area. Also the fuel tank is on the fuselage, and not in the wings. Maybe Luno got a point there, but anyway...

More... there are really not that many reports on this happening when it entered regular employment. Actually I can't find any! It did happened during evaluation, but that wasn't a hazard on normal operations. On the next Jumo, this problem was corrected.

Now, forget the fire at take-off. (That's what I was talking about before)

You fire some bullets at a Me262 engine, and it will always take fire... even if you throttle it out... so, all hits are on the tiny valve? When this happens, I agree with the pilot that bailed out. But the valve is really a small target... why did all the times that this engines are hit, they just got in flames, and they can't be stopped with a dive and fuel cut out?

This really don't connect with operation reports.