Heinkels of steel?

[baronWastelan]

Not of steel. 400+ rounds hit, fired by me in the Spitfire Ia, all 'realism' options on... just today as a matter of fact, with default load-out and convergence:

[Pbs]

Problem of Battle of Britain in weak weapon. This is early stage of war. Thats why in 1942-1945 fighters fly with 30mm cannons or several 20-mm autocannons. Thats why i hate Battle of Britain. I want eastern front with USSR, or at least pacific war - late japan planes have very powerful weapon too.

[BadAim]

Re-belt your Spittie with 4 guns AP and 4 guns DeWilde @ 200-250 yds convergence and actually shoot at convergence. If you get a decent hit ratio, (I.E. you can hit the broad side of a barn) you'll take down a couple of 111's before you run out of ammo.

Lesson learned? He 111= big plane / .303= small bullet

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Ploughman

This is the best thing for me. Sitting on the arse of a Heinkel and filling it full of lead and it still keeps going despite the damage. Just like the history books say. Having said that fill the wing between the engine and the fuselage with incendary bullets and that fuel tank'll blow like Guy Fawkes. I can't wait for a butcher bird in this sim.

Exactly my experience so far, i've had Heinkels blow up like that and i was even using the default ammo belt. I've also had the same happen when attacking Blenheims just with the machine guns on the 110 while my gunner was reloading my cannons.

In both of these cases, the way it happened is that i placed a good burst and started a fuel leak on the target, following it up with a second burst a few seconds later. This is so close to what we've been reading in the books, the damage model is insane in this sim: first you start the leak, give it a couple of seconds to vaporise and if you shoot at it again you can ignite the entire fuel tank.

Overall, the He111s did have a reputation of returning home with hundreds of .303 bullet holes so i would advise aiming for the cockpit from head-on, or at the very least come in slightly from the sides. This also yields much improved results against any type of target, as you stand a good chance of scoring hits in the cockpit and killing the crew...i've had sorties in the G.50 where i scored 3-4 kills, each with a burst so short that i didn't even get the chance to see tracers. You just come in from the side, hose them down and see them nose down and dive into the drink.

Finally, if you want to compare with or get an easier experience, go against some Dorniers. I routinely fly the low level intercept mission and i can easily get 3-4 kills by the time my magazine is empty without any fancy work at all, i just come in from dead six and blast them until point blank range, walk the tracers from engine to cockpit to other engine, loop over them and come back for the next one.

[Mr_Steven]

I think the biggest problem is the anti-bomber tactics that most pilots are using. The worst spot to be by far is the 6 O' Clock, and it seems that's the most common place guys are firing from. Head-on is obviously quite effective as you get a good look at the crew, however I'm really not a fan due to the fact that you are whizzing by and it takes quite a bit longer to get back in position for your next pass, especially if you plan on going head on again. My preferred way to attack is high, and from the 3-4 O' Clock angle, or the 8-9 O' Clock angle, but being high is of extreme importance. Come in straight as an arrow, much faster than they are going, keep your nose pointed out far in front of the bomber, but in his flight path so only small adjustments are required on the way in, hammer the piss out of it as close to your convergence as possible, and as soon as you stop firing your focus is now on your next pass. At this point you want to continue your same heading but also regaining all of your altitude, and once you've got what most would consider an unneccessarily large altitude advantage, you turn around and repeat.

In terms of potential damage I think this system is as good as the head-on, possibly better, but what's most important is you get a lot more passes over the course of a mission.

I remember one of those old 'Friday Bomber Nights' on '46 where one of the maps was a Battle of Britain style He-111 attack and I was able to bring down 3 of them in the battle, in a Hurricane Mk.1, and gloriously make it back home. Gun convergence is very crucial as many have mentioned, I like it around 125m or 150m for .303's. Happy shooting.

[BP_Tailspin]

Originally Posted by mazex

Because of the performance issues before I mostly flew cross country. Now a new world is opening up after the patch with fps most of the time above 30... Even the "Intercept bombers over London" mission

Therefore I'm not sure if it's since the patch - but shooting down a He 111 in a Spitfire (have not tried the Hurri but I guess it's the same) just feels way too hard?

On realistic gunnery I set the convergence to 150 yards and to shot down a He 111 I have to spend like 60+ seconds of perfectly aimed bursts at optimum distance before downing them (having unlimited ammo as it is impossible otherwise). Sure the .303 was not that effective against the bombers but when placing four 15 second bursts in a row right in the left engine and it keeps on running one starts to wonder how exaggerated the kill claims where if this is realistic

Is it only me or does anyone else have the problem? There are hit animations all over those He 111:s and there is debris flying around but they just keep going...

You might be interested in reading this.

http://www.findonvillage.com/0617_th...ugust_1940.htm

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Pbs

Problem of Battle of Britain in weak weapon. This is early stage of war. Thats why in 1942-1945 fighters fly with 30mm cannons or several 20-mm autocannons. Thats why i hate Battle of Britain.

You realise that the little 303s shot down a lot of planes in the BoB? We just need to learn how best to use the weapons.

[HamishUK]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

You realise that the little 303s shot down a lot of planes in the BoB? We just need to learn how best to use the weapons.

Reading Steve Bungay's book again "The Most Dangerous Enemy" and an excellent section from a Hurricane pilot who indicated that over 200 yards the .303 was highly ineffective at bringing down the Heinkel and even harder for the Ju88. He went even further to state that the Polish squadrons (who were more experienced fighter pilots) were attacking head on.

So agree with your statement Triggaar. Bringing down a bomber is about finding a weak spot and getting the convergence right.

[engarde]

Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa

The HE 111 was very tough to bring down with early RAF ammo. There are dozens of stories about RAF pilots lining up behind the same bomber and emptying ammo belts, and they would keep going.

I have read this.

I liken the shoot down issue to hollywood sex and real sex.

What you think should happen, and what actually does?

The two are rarely similar........

I frankly have little trouble bringing down the Heinkel. I fly right in, aim for the cockpit and usually kill the pilot.

Or i set me convergence quite close, come in from the side and nail the engine or the wing closest.

Try it.

Dont turn the .303 into a 125mm smoothbore.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by mazex

Because of the performance issues before I mostly flew cross country. Now a new world is opening up after the patch with fps most of the time above 30... Even the "Intercept bombers over London" mission

Therefore I'm not sure if it's since the patch - but shooting down a He 111 in a Spitfire (have not tried the Hurri but I guess it's the same) just feels way too hard?

On realistic gunnery I set the convergence to 150 yards and to shot down a He 111 I have to spend like 60+ seconds of perfectly aimed bursts at optimum distance before downing them (having unlimited ammo as it is impossible otherwise). Sure the .303 was not that effective against the bombers but when placing four 15 second bursts in a row right in the left engine and it keeps on running one starts to wonder how exaggerated the kill claims where if this is realistic

Is it only me or does anyone else have the problem? There are hit animations all over those He 111:s and there is debris flying around but they just keep going...

If you think the Heinkels are bad, try downing a Stuka.

I've managed to down the Heinkels with limited ammo in a Hurri with default loadout (bomber intercept mission) reasonably easily on occasions, but those bloody Stukas in the Hawkinge mission - deary me! After about 5 attempts I finally managed to wear one out. Not very spectacular mind.

I think it's down to hitting them in the right place. I think.