British FM killing the fun of the game for allied pilots.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by zapatista

Nitrous,

blue flyers responding to the poll will significantly distort the outcome of anything you are trying to achieve here

Only the ones who never tried the other side properly.

In my opinion, every reasonable 'blue pilot' should be able to see the difference and if a person cares (or wants) to try to walk in the others guys shoes, his opinion will be much more valuable. That goes for both red and blue, there is no difference to me. It's always easier to judge without trying - like strict blue saying the red tactics is wrong, or the red saying the 109 is doodle to fly. None of that is true actually but you can't explain that to someone who never tried. Just my 0.02 Eurocents

[V.4_Pogi]

Originally Posted by Robo.

Hey Pogi! This is not so much about tactics but about relative performance. Maybe you can take the Spitfire and show me how you defend against well flown 109 one day We've met on Repka 'mince meat' few times, you know what I mean mate... S!

*edit - I am very happy that in the 1.08 beta, they changed the neg-G behaviour. That on itself increased the chances to survive quite a bit. What it was before was quite terrible

It may not be appropriate for the flight model and this applies to both sides, but I do not think that would solve the problem so they can fly. I stress, my respect for the exception .

[Stirwenn]

I follow Robo : when i feel tired, i fly an 109 ! flying high, gaining speed, no doggy fly and i'm most of time able to let red fighters far away from my tail. More than speed, as a red fighter, the most annoying to face is increasing overheating past 10000ft. Under this altitude, tweak the mix, full throttle, full prop and no overheating. Over 10000ft, a SpitIIa is an half threat. Over 15000ft, the same Spit well handed is none a threat (except a bounce or wife or kids boring you).

[OSSI]

Originally Posted by Nitrous

Thanks 1C for the improved stability from latest beta patch.
Please work hard on the British FM as its killing the enjoyment of the game for many allied pilots.

FM issues

Engine overheating
Loss of energy/momentum
Bad climb rates
Incorrect top speeds
Incorrect acceleration.

The Spitfire turns now better and dont lost energy as in real and you want turn better and want lost lower engery? Maybe we make the DM from bomber more worse too so 1 spit can shoot down 20 bomber in one time with his laserguns? The backgunner are now worse. In real a single fighter who attack a bomber formation wants to suicide.

Maybe you want a arcade sim? Oh we have one....!?!

[AbortedMan]

Doesn't matter, man. As soon as (if) 1C puts any red plane on a competitive level with 109s, good ol' ATAG will limit them to 3 or 4 per mission. So you won't get to fly them anyway...just like they did with the IIa in the steam release version.

Tell me I'm wrong, go ahead.

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by AbortedMan

Doesn't matter, man. As soon as (if) 1C puts any red plane on a competitive level with 109s, good ol' ATAG will limit them to 3 or 4 per mission. So you won't get to fly them anyway...just like they did with the IIa in the steam release version.

Tell me I'm wrong, go ahead.

Okay your wrong, jesus christ man grow up.

At one time they limited Spit II and BF109 E4's to 5 each side, stop spreading your BS everywhere.

ATAG are not biased to either side, from what I have seen they have a similar number of red and blue pilots.

You should be embarrassed with your behaviour its disgraceful.

[JG52Krupi]

Nitrous, you should have ticked the "show who voted" box.

That way you could see if anyone was trying to mess with the results.

[MB_Avro_UK]

I'm here to enjoy Cliffs of Dover. If Bue performs beter than Red in FM it doesn't bother me. And this Poll, although well meant, won't achieve anything.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro

[notafinger!]

Originally Posted by Robo.

In my opinion, every reasonable 'blue pilot' should be able to see the difference and if a person cares (or wants) to try to walk in the others guys shoes, his opinion will be much more valuable. That goes for both red and blue, there is no difference to me. It's always easier to judge without trying - like strict blue saying the red tactics is wrong, or the red saying the 109 is doodle to fly. None of that is true actually but you can't explain that to someone who never tried. Just my 0.02 Eurocents

Very well said and I agree completely. Personally, I believe it's fully possible to create flight models that feel correct historically but are balanced in multiplayer. I do not think absolute historic fidelity is possible.

What bothers me in these debates is that the OP starts with a clearly biased statement. Yes, those things listed should be corrected but no mention of the things that are over modeled. Open canopies that induce no drag, flaps that can be dropped at any speed, turn/roll rates that are way over spec, wings that can have massive holes in them without loss of maneuverability, energy retention in high G turns. Problem is I think pilots have become so use to these things that if/when they are ever corrected there will be another wave of forum bitching and 1C conspiracy theorists. However, if these issues are not corrected in tandem with FM improvements then we go right back to the uber Spit IIa.

There are 109 things that need corrected also. Leading edge slats that do nothing, rudder trimmed for too slow a speed, fuel tank that is maybe too vulnerable to rifle caliber hits (that goes for all fuel tanks in the sim) but the set and forget throttle should be corrected too as well as heavier elevators at high speed. I'm sure there are many blue pilots who cruise around at 1.35 ata at all times and will get quite a shock if complex engine management is ever actually made complex.

Anyway, I vote yes because I want to see more Hurricanes.

[vranac]

Originally Posted by Robo.

I believe the OP was more concerned about the relative LW to RAF performance rather than absolute performance (which is obviously also wrong, I agree).

From playability and 'fun' point of view, which I believe is what OP had in mind in the first place, there are serious issues for this performance gap that exists in game did not exist in so called real life. Hence the frustration of many red pilots. I fly both sides and I admit that unless I do silly stuff in my 109, the RAF can't touch me.

+1

I also fly both sides, and I'll add that many times I encountered 109 in low stall (1000-2000 ft) I climb a bit to avoid collision, he went out of stall very low so no chance to dive and gain speed, and I couldn't catch up with properly trimmed plane ( some of them I cought on second stall ))
There is not a bigger mistake that 109 pilot can make,but I must add the sensitivity on rudder is still to big in my opinion and I asume that pilots with rudder on twist have a lot of trouble with it.

Climbing ability of 109 is also too strong right now, even if on the same alt and E with spit or even 2 or 3 of them, spits can only defend and count maybe on some lucky shot.