ATAG Dedicated Server is up!

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

There are in fact so many AA guns I actually cant remember the last time I was lagitimatley shot down by another human pilot. Please do not take this as bragging, I am at best an average pilot, this is a sincere and just statement.

I've seen you complaining in the chatline yesterday and my guess is you've been just unlucky. I agree with the others that unless you end up low and slow circling the RAF airfield, the AAA is not much of a threat for a small 109s. In fact even the German aircraft strafing the bases (Hawkinge and Manston as per objectives) didn't seem to be bothered too much and Stukas or 110 got away easily unless they loitered in ther for too long. Yes the visual show is nice, the flak can give your position away and it actually hits sometimes. Like 1 in 500 burst can come really close. In fact it is just as likely to hit your Spitfire in the same area because the ack ack chaps don't bloody care!

I suggest you keep flying on ATAG and stay away from the actual bases, fly higher up and you should be fine just like everybody else.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by Robo.

I suggest you keep flying on ATAG and stay away from the actual bases, fly higher up and you should be fine just like everybody else.

We do and there is rarely anythiung to do up there because all the red fighters are hugging the AA on the deck.

I take it no one actually red my post that hard.


I must admit it does make me laugh when I see so and so red pilot was shot down by bofors.


I'll tell you the only things that ever happen if you are hit by bofors:

1.Nothing
2.Loss of aileron controls
3.Loss of elevator Controls
4.Loss of rudder controls
5.Pilot kill
6.A combination of the above

So either way you headed back acrros the channel with half your controls gone.

[notafinger!]

I am in agreement with Farber about the AAA on ATAG. Just yesterday my 109 was cut in half by bofors over Manston and on multiple occasions I've seen people lose wings at high alt just cruising. I have little interest in flying bombers on either side as even a high speed pass over a target will get you pk'd or have a major control surface destroyed. The flak on both sides is insanely deadly. If I'm flying blue and I'm being chased back across the channel, I just drag them to the Oye-Plage target and it's game over for them.

The problem is the accuracy of the faster firing small caliber guns and the composition of guns ATAG's mission builders are using. There are these odd blocks of AAA over bases/targets with 1 large caliber in the center surrounded by 8 smaller caliber guns. Because the guns are so close together they tend to fixate on a single target no matter how many enemy are in the vicinity. Over Hawkinge you'll often see a single 109 getting all the AAA while 2 or 3 buzz about without a single puff going off near them. If the guns were spread out a little more and the ratio of large/small caliber guns tweaked it would be more believable and more planes would come under a smaller amount of fire.

Also, you can't really tell people to stay away from the bases considering there are bases & targets all along the coast of England. The fact is there are very few red pilots who come to France or even venture out over the channel forcing blue to come to red most of the time. So with the exception of the Blenheim boys, most of the red fighter pilots haven't really experienced the might of the AAA. Come to France more often and you might begin to sympathize with what Farber is saying.

[Robo.]

I admit I have not flown any 109 sorties in this patch and there were some changes with the missions on ATAG, too. I have had no problem before for I never really enjoyed buzzing the airfields. I remember the times when you could land your 109 in Hawkinge without getting any damage. They might go the other extreme now, I don't know. I also rarely get across to France as I am and defending interceptor. I do fly CAP over French coast quite often, flak was reasonable but I had no reason to go anywhere near the airfields.

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

We do and there is rarely anythiung to do up there because all the red fighters are hugging the AA on the deck.

I assure you there is quite a few Spitfires flying up there. I believe we had a nice 20k drag and bag tackle with someone from I./JG26 (not sure, just judging from the skill) somewhere mid channel. Don't generalise on all red pilots please. It is true that sometimes you get attacked by LW right after take-off and it's not easy to extend from the fight with the performance we've got. If you have any advise on that that would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

I must admit it does make me laugh when I see so and so red pilot was shot down by bofors.

I am glad you're having a laugh. Just to let you know that you can easily get hit by own AAA while taking off (the ack acks really don't care and shoot no matter if there are friendlies in the area).

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

I'll tell you the only things that ever happen if you are hit by bofors: (...)

You have to try not to get hit by bofors then. I am aware of that damage, I spend quite a lot of time in a 109 and it's the same if you get hit by the AAA on the other side. Controls gone, engine gone, pilot dead...

I am not saying that ATAG is ok now and realistic because I don't know but you have to take AAA in account if you're the invading guys. What is the altitude where Bofors shoots anyway? I'd say I have never seen the white Bofors burst above some 5000 ft. Heavy flak alright, but that's inaccurate unless you really have bad luck.

[ATAG_Septic]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

We do and there is rarely anythiung to do up there because all the red fighters are hugging the AA on the deck.

I take it no one actually red my post that hard.

You make two incorrect and frankly insulting assumptions. My subjective experience is largely flying along both coasts, for both sides in a fighter at 15k plus and I'm usually alone. After an hour or so I sometimes choose to land at Hawkinge (when playing red) as doing so often leads to some action. I make no assumption or comment about how others choose to enjoy their game.

Septic.

Septic.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by Robo.

I admit I have not flown any 109 sorties in this patch and there were some changes with the missions on ATAG, too.


You have to try not to get hit by bofors then. I am aware of that damage, I spend quite a lot of time in a 109 and it's the same if you get hit by the AAA on the other side. Controls gone, engine gone, pilot dead...

I am not saying that ATAG is ok now and realistic because I don't know but you have to take AAA in account if you're the invading guys. What is the altitude where Bofors shoots anyway? I'd say I have never seen the white Bofors burst above some 5000 ft. Heavy flak alright, but that's inaccurate unless you really have bad luck.

Youdo fly 109's or you dont? I am confused.

The altitude where bofors stop firing at you is 3500 metres.

Please can we all start to distinguish between AA (bofors etc) and AAA (FLAK, 88's etc) My problem is only with the AA.


SEPTIC:

I did not mean to insult anyone. If you were insulted Im am sorry. However I do not see where I insulted someone.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Youdo fly 109's or you dont? I am confused.

I do quite a lot, but not on ATAG since the last beta patch is out. I thought it was clear from what I wrote.

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

The altitude where bofors stop firing at you is 3500 metres.

I suggest you stay above 10000 ft whenever possible then. Under 3500m I find rather low especially over enemy territory and near airfields.

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Please can we all start to distinguish between AA (bofors etc) and AAA (FLAK, 88's etc) My problem is only with the AA.

I agree. Flak and 88' is the same thing btw.

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

I did not mean to insult anyone.

I don't know, you certainly didn't insult me - I just pointed out that there is always a way not to get shot down by the AAA (or AA if you really mind) and that it is certainly not true that 'all the red fighters are hugging the AA on the deck.'

Cheers, hope to see you on ATAG again.

[5./JG27.Farber]

The best solution I can see is if the AA could be set to only open fire on a target within a set range as they could in the old IL2. I think 1km would be right for AA. Whereas the AAA is fine.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

I think 1km would be right for AA.

Why do you think that? Because it's shooting at you? Bofors has had effective ranges of 3500 yards (cca 3200m) and it certainly attempted to shoot at targets above 1000m. I understand you're reporting this issue from the playability point of view but even in the sim the chance you get hit is lesser if you're further away from the gun. You know there is AA on the airfields and there is AA protecting the targets. Just don't fly down there in these areas. If you do, you're likely to be hit. That's the price for catching the low flying RAF taking off or landing. Pretty fair and realistic I'd say.

I don't know anything about mission making and I appreciate what notafinger! said about blocks of AA guns and their amounts, but I don't see anything wrong with the gun range. Just my opinion of course.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by Robo.

Why do you think that? Because it's shooting at you? Bofors has had effective ranges of 3500 yards (cca 3200m) and it certainly attempted to shoot at targets above 1000m. I understand you're reporting this issue from the playability point of view but even in the sim the chance you get hit is lesser if you're further away from the gun. You know there is AA on the airfields and there is AA protecting the targets. Just don't fly down there in these areas. If you do, you're likely to be hit. That's the price for catching the low flying RAF taking off or landing. Pretty fair and realistic I'd say.

I don't know anything about mission making and I appreciate what notafinger! said about blocks of AA guns and their amounts, but I don't see anything wrong with the gun range. Just my opinion of course.

So what your saying is, Im vulching and deserve what I get. Im Vulching if I go below 3.5km?


Im sticking to this:

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

In continuation with my discussion with ATAG Colander, I would like to add:

The sheer amount of Bofors on the ATAG maps makes the server unenjoyable for me and my squad mates.

There are in fact so many AA guns I actually cant remember the last time I was lagitimatley shot down by another human pilot. Please do not take this as bragging, I am at best an average pilot, this is a sincere and just statement.

The AA guns, as far as I beleive, were placed to prevent "vulching" with special regard to a pilot by the name of alambash. Considering I have not seen him online for some considerable time and all 100 octane fighters are airspawning this means that currently vulching on the red side is impossible on red fighters!

Furthermore as has been stated by ATAG on many occasions if you are getting "vulched" then you should move to a different airfield, get on comms, dont get mad and get even! - there are no rules on ATAG except that everyone must respect one another.

Yet ATAG seem also to want to balance the game and as such are influencing the way that the game is played upon their server. By having so many AA guns the best red fighter tactic is to stay on the deck over England and use the AA as a weapon not themselves - knowing that we blue fighters cannot engage with red pilots (as the game is for!) with out having to come to them and be damaged by AA so that they inturn may finish the process and claim victory over a blue pilot. A false victory.

Please understand this not an attack on anyone, nor ATAG nor red fighter pilots, but a perspective of a Blue fighter pilot who wishes to enjoy this simulator and the ATAG server but cannot due to this machanic which is shaping the events as I mentioned above.

I would also like to salute the red pilots who have something about them to fly not only exclusively over England but to come to the neutral ground of the channel and beyond into our terrortory where they too face the same redicoulous prospect of being hammered by the AA in the same way as do we Blue pilots when over England. What joy it brings me when the reds attack us for a change or we engage each other over the channel!

If the AA was as good in real life as it is in this game then England would not have needed RAF fighter command! The whole purpose of this sim, I am sure you will agree, is to emulate the Battle of Britian. The ATAG server has about 9 Bofors for ever active airfield. Im am confident without checking that there are more Bofors than in the actually real war where they did not engage with even half the range of the current bofors in game.

Please address this problem before I cannot anymore find myself to use you server.

S!