Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[winny]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

While "pulling the plug" was used to express 100 Octane, it really just means they gave it all the engine has got.

So now it's about the definition of pulling the plug?

Really?

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by winny

So now it's about the definition of pulling the plug?

Really?

LOL, the 'song and dance routine' is changed, again. Anything to not admit being wrong.

[pstyle]

Originally Posted by winny

So now it's about the definition of pulling the plug?
Really?

None of the combat reports I can find use this term.The term is only used by the author of the spitfireperformace.com page.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

LOL, the 'song and dance routine' is changed, again. Anything to not admit being wrong.

Crump doing what Crump does best..

[robtek]

People trying to disparage someone, are doing it to themself in reality!

[Crumpp]

Here is the results:

referecnes to +12 Lb and/or 100 octance
602 squadron: February 1940 - photo of squadron aircraft in in pre-BoB paint with 100 written on the fuseage + squad operations book entry on 16/2
54 Squadron: May 1940 - combat report from colin gray on 24/5 & AL Deere Combat report 26/5
19 Squadron: May 1950 - combat report from flt Lt Lane 26/5
610 Squadron: July 1940 - photo of 100 fuel bowser refuelling A/C
41 Squadron: June 1940 - combat report Flt Lt Webster 19/6
64 Squadron: August 1940 - combat report from P/O Donahue
72 Squadron: September 1940 - Combat report from P/O Elliot 9/9

References to Boost Cut out/ emergency boost/ "gate"
74 Squadron: May 1940 - combat report from P/O Freeborn 24/5
611 squadron: June 1940 - combat report from P/O Brown 2/6
610 Squadron: June 1940 - combat report order to "gate" 12/6
616 Squadron: August 1940 - combat report from F/O Dundas 15/8
603 SQuadron: August 1940 - combat report from P/O Morton 28/6
152 Squadron: September 1940 - combat report from P/O Hall on 4/9
66 Squadron: September 1940 - combat report from F/O Oxsrping 6/9
234 Squadron: August OR September 1940 - recollections from P/O Doe
92 Squadron: September 1940 - recollections from Goeffrey Wellum

reference to high boost (+10 LB)
602 Squadron: August 1940 - combat report from Flt Lt Boyd 18/6

Good Stuff....

By July it shows ~8 Squadrons and I imagine some of those squadrons are operating Spitfire Mk II's.

August adds another 5 Squadrons and by sometime in September, a full 16 squadrons online as researched by Morgan and Shacklady.

According to the RAF estabilishment by September there were 33 squadrons of Hurricanes and 19 Squadrons of Spitfires.

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by pstyle

None of the combat reports I can find use this term.The term is only used by the author of the spitfireperformace.com page.

Not quite, here are some reports you've missed: Donaldson 151Sqdn-18May40.pdf

Dutton 145 Sqn 1July40.pdf

There were several other colloquial expressions used to describe using +12 lbs boost, all with the same meaning, regardless of what Crumpp might think. And wouldn't ya know it, these squadrons are not on pstyle's list...

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by pstyle

.

The list is not exhasutive and simply indicates the first date at which I can find various references. I have grouped these by the type of reference, from explicit mentions of particular boost or octanes (in photos or reports), down to mentions of "gate" or "emergency power/ boost cut out" which are almost as persuasive as direct references to the use of the 100 fuels. I am going to continue researching this to see if I can find further evidence/ data that indicates at a minimum the "in-use-by" date for the various squadrons.

Here is the results:

referecnes to +12 Lb and/or 100 octance
602 squadron: February 1940 - photo of squadron aircraft in in pre-BoB paint with 100 written on the fuseage + squad operations book entry on 16/2
54 Squadron: May 1940 - combat report from colin gray on 24/5 & AL Deere Combat report 26/5
19 Squadron: May 1950 - combat report from flt Lt Lane 26/5
610 Squadron: July 1940 - photo of 100 fuel bowser refuelling A/C
41 Squadron: June 1940 - combat report Flt Lt Webster 19/6
64 Squadron: August 1940 - combat report from P/O Donahue
72 Squadron: September 1940 - Combat report from P/O Elliot 9/9

References to Boost Cut out/ emergency boost/ "gate"
74 Squadron: May 1940 - combat report from P/O Freeborn 24/5
611 squadron: June 1940 - combat report from P/O Brown 2/6
610 Squadron: June 1940 - combat report order to "gate" 12/6
616 Squadron: August 1940 - combat report from F/O Dundas 15/8
603 SQuadron: August 1940 - combat report from P/O Morton 28/6
152 Squadron: September 1940 - combat report from P/O Hall on 4/9
66 Squadron: September 1940 - combat report from F/O Oxsrping 6/9
234 Squadron: August OR September 1940 - recollections from P/O Doe
92 Squadron: September 1940 - recollections from Goeffrey Wellum

reference to high boost (+10 LB)
602 Squadron: August 1940 - combat report from Flt Lt Boyd 18/6

I am not sure how many of the above are spitfire squadrons, but there are 16 Squadrons listed there (610 is listed twice, as I located references in two categories). I understand there are only 19 Spitfire squadrons which have battle honours for the BoB.

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Good Stuff....

By July it shows ~8 Squadrons and I imagine some of those squadrons are operating Spitfire Mk II's.

August adds another 5 Squadrons and by sometime in September, a full 16 squadrons online as researched by Morgan and Shacklady.

According to the RAF estabilishment by September there were 33 squadrons of Hurricanes and 19 Squadrons of Spitfires.

The first unit to use Spitfire IIs was 611 Sqn starting in August, as was established back here

Originally Posted by JtD

There are also records for useage of boost cut out or 12 lbs for the following squadrons, as can be found here:

111, 151 - Feb 1940
1, 3, 17, 56, 73, 79, 85, 87, 229, 245 - May 1940
43 - June 1940
145 - July 1940
249, 303 - September 1940

plus add 11 Hurricane squadrons
17, 56, 73, 79, 87, 85, 151, 229, 245 Sqns May,

145 Sqn, July,

1 Sqn. August,

43 Sqn June

That makes 18 squadrons Feb-July another 6 in August...oops! that equals 24 in August plus another eight September = 32 squadrons. Why that's exactly twice as many squadrons than Morgan and Shacklady tssk tssk tssk.
Breakdown = 15 Spitfire, 17 Hurricane

[JtD]

There are also records for useage of boost cut out or 12 lbs for the following squadrons, as can be found here:

111, 151 - Feb 1940
1, 3, 17, 56, 73, 79, 85, 87, 229, 245 - May 1940
43 - June 1940
145 - July 1940
249, 303 - September 1940

[Ernst]

Even if Crump is wrong at all some here is has no more than "ad hominem" behaviour. Some of them act in similar ways in another threads, trying to negate the fact presented, creating arguments, digging others, misleading some and given their own deturpated interpretation even when the data were against their favourite a/c.

All this turned on a childish fight where wins who gives the last word even if wrong word in an vicious looping.

All us have some bias however we have to try clear our minds. My suggestion is that you put your arguments and give a time. Everyone put the arguments over the table and let the readers decide. Stop trying to counter any time. Please, this is for all.

You claim being scientific and rational, but nothing here is in this way at all.