Censorship and what to buy: 1C/Anton please help!!!

[Danny M NL]

Originally Posted by Widar

Before this post sidetracks into a `lets bash the German common man` for 1945 censorship laws which the German common man really has no way of changing or influencing, I must set something straight.

This post is just about a question to 1C/Anton about the difference between the Benelux and the FRG BOP version in terms of censorship that is all. I just want to know what I buy before I buy it. I just bought HOI3 and the FRG version has been thoroughly self-censored by the game developer to avoid official censorship and I want to avoid this with BOP should that also be the case.

So let´s not change this post into blaming a people for a government and the laws they have to live under and then state that that people is the cause for worldwide game censorship. People get born in a country and from day one they must obey laws they never drew up themselves and pay lifelong taxes on account of huge government debts they themselves had no part in making and that they will never be able to pay off. Let´s not blame the common man or a people for any of it.

The removing of symbols, names and other items in games worldwide generally has nothing to do with `youth health protection` censorship in the FRG specifically.

In the USA there is also a `youth health protection` scheme. The director of Battlefront games in the USA explained on his website forum a few years ago why he took certain symbols, names and other items out of his USA only release Combat Mission game because of the ´youth health protection´ measures in the USA. The fact is that under the guise, pretext or whatever you want to call it of rubber paragraph´youth health protection´, the censor can say that a game, book, cd or whatever is dangerous to the health of a child. Then that product may not be publicly advertised and not sold in public places (stores and the like). Which in effect means bankruptcy for a small or medium size game developer.

No game developer wants this to happen to his product obviously. So game developers censor themselves and leave stuff out of their game in advance to avoid getting hit by the `youth health protection´ censors worldwide. Some game developers are more brave than others in this respect or are almost immune to censorship like COD and GTA because of the big money and influence behind them.

I actually meant the german government instead of the people, my choice of words was a bit unfortunate...

[Widar]

Originally Posted by PF_Lizard

If you have an HD TV the PAL / NTSC issue won't affect you. HD resolutions (both interlaced and progressive) are standard worldwide. Obviously they can also display lower resolutions such as NTSC (480) and PAL (576).

Ahh and so I learn something new every day! Thanks for the info.

I don't know if a European country code Xbox 360 can play an NTSC DVD though, it should not be a problem probably, but I don't know for sure.

[Widar]

Originally Posted by Danny M NL

I actually meant the german government instead of the people, my choice of words was a bit unfortunate...

That's ok no problem, just wanted to prevent this thread from turning into a people bashing event.

Nice signature image.

[Widar]

Originally Posted by rufuzmitchell

Ik vond het zelf ook een aangename verrassing hoor toen ik hoorde van de regiovrije games. het is wel prettig moet ik zeggen,want er zijn wel wat japanse pareltjes te scoren via import die nooit of nauwelijks een europese release krijgen.

On topic: Ik zou als ik jou was beter een weekje wachten en zeker weten dat je een goede (relatief ongecensureerde) versie van Bop krijgt,dan dat je later spijt hebt van je duitse versie..(ik heb wel es gehoord dat sommige duitse versies van games GROEN bloed hebben,ipv rood? kom op,zeg. dat is toch gewoon sneu? )magoed, ik begrijp je dilemma,want ik zou er ook wat voor over hebben om Bop NU in mijn gretige klauwtjes te hebben!

Ook nog maar even in engels zodat andere mensen ons ook begrijpen (verkorte versie)

English: If i where you i'd wait a week and get UK or benelux version (that would have 'less'censorship,if there is any difference in the first place). I feel your pain though,because i'd give My Kingdom for a horse..errr copy of IL-2 Bop NOW!!!!

Well you are probably right, especially since there is no response from 1C or Anton Y. on my question. So the safe choice would be to wait for the Benelux version for a week or two. Just hope that the upcoming BOP German cockpit DLC is not censored here also...

Anyway, yes some games have green blood in the FRG. I watched Left 4 Dead being played here recently and there was green blood in that game. I don't know if that is also in the Benelux version because I never saw/played that game in the Benelux.

[Widar]

Originally Posted by Widar

1C/Anton could you please supply some reliable information on the subject: What is the difference between the FRG (West German) and Benelux (Dutch) Xbox 360 versions of "IL-2: Birds of Prey", if any?

UPDATE on IL-2 BOP censorship in the FRG: At least one BOP part has been censored as far as I have been able to find out. The historically correct name of the President and Chancellor of Germany during WWII has been censored, I will call him "Armand Hiller" like Paradox Software did in HOI1-3 in order not to offend the sensitive FRG censors in what the administration in Germany calls "the most free German state in history". It seems that somewhere in IL-2 BOP the historically correct name of "Armand Hiller" is spoken or shown and where that is the case that name has been left blank or has been omitted/removed.

Makes one wonder what else has been censored in the IL-2 BOP FRG version.

[H Lecter]

Originally Posted by Widar

UPDATE on IL-2 BOP censorship in the FRG: At least one BOP part has been censored as far as I have been able to find out. The historically correct name of the President and Chancellor of Germany during WWII has been censored, I will call him "Armand Hiller" like Paradox Software did in HOI1-3 in order not to offend the sensitive FRG censors in what the administration in Germany calls "the most free German state in history". It seems that somewhere in IL-2 BOP the historically correct name of "Armand Hiller" is spoken or shown and where that is the case that name has been left blank or has been omitted/removed.

Makes one wonder what else has been censored in the IL-2 BOP FRG version.

Just order the UK version. It's a safe bet for getting a game that is as uncensored as can be and usually it's out earlier. Furthermore I don't think there is a Benelux version, it should be the one that Anton referred to as the 'EU' version in one of his posts and that's the one that Germany gets.

I really cannot see how mentioning Hitler in a historically accurate context can be against the law (even in Germany), but I gave up trying to understand it...

[Widar]

Originally Posted by H Lecter

Just order the UK version. It's a safe bet for getting a game that is as uncensored as can be and usually it's out earlier. Furthermore I don't think there is a Benelux version, it should be the one that Anton referred to as the 'EU' version in one of his posts and that's the one that Germany gets.

I really cannot see how mentioning Hitler in a historically accurate context can be against the law (even in Germany), but I gave up trying to understand it...

I am definitely not buying the FRG version. Who knows what else 1C was forced to censor in the FRG? I am glad that 1C left "the name" blank, to let the people know that something is being censored instead of making a special FRG version to accomodate the FRG censors in which the FRG censorship would have remained hidden.

To answer your question, the FRG censors actually do not really follow the law at all. I read the legal paragraph on which the FRG censors base their censoring and a prohibition of mentioning that or any other name is not actually in the constitution of the FRG. What they use for censoring is a legal paragraph that they bend and twist in any way they want to, so that in effect the FRG censors can censor whatever they feel like actually.

So now I am going to exercise some patience and wait for about two weeks until I can enjoy a clean healthy non-FRG version of IL-2 BOP. I just hope that they NEVER implement instant in-game content blocking via the Xbox 360 country code or IP addressess.

Hopefully the upcoming IL-2:BOP DLC (incl. German aircraft cockpits) will not be censored in the FRG as well, like for instance the GOW and COD5:WAW DLC's. But there is a way around that also, next time I'm abroad I just download all "forbidden" DLC's. It still is a major nuisance though.

Interestingly the (large) retailers I spoke to about all this said that game sales in the FRG are really being hurt by this FRG censorship because Germans now just buy the FRG-censored games abroad or via the internet. The best answer game developers could probably give to FRG censors would be to just stop releasing censored games in the FRG at all and let the people buy non-FRG censored games abroad or via the internet.

Anyway, I really look forward to playing IL-2 BOP when the time comes! Ahhh, the virtues of patience...

[H Lecter]

Originally Posted by Widar

So now I am going to exercise some patience and wait for about two weeks until I can enjoy a clean healthy non-FRG version of IL-2 BOP.

Just order it at Amazon.co.uk. It's on stock and will ship the same day. It's the FRG/EU version that is delayed.

[Widar]

Originally Posted by H Lecter

Just order it at Amazon.co.uk. It's on stock and will ship the same day. It's the FRG/EU version that is delayed.

Will do!

[rufuzmitchell]

So,there's a version in wich Hitler's name is faded out,and one where it is mentioned?
I got the game,but i don't know wich version it is. The text on the back is only in english,but it mentions eu.playstation.com. It also says the game will quickstart in (illustrated with flags): english (there's two union jack's???) and then i think finnish,swedish,norwegian and portuguese.
These are also the languages featuring in the manual...

any way of knowing wich version i have?