I get killed as a gunner, so the pilot is dead too?

[Verdun1916]

Originally Posted by Nil

The crew on a bomber do not change roles! like the pilot take the gunner position and the gunner take the pilot seat

It is not about changing role,
it is about using temporally the body of one gunner.

Multi crew is that actually. each has a role and if one is dead, there as still the other

Otherwise, the modeled gunners stations are useless and have to be always used by IA.

As a player, we play the WHOLE bomber, not just a part of it, or we need other human as well in the bomber which would be impossible in single player. While I am manning the gun, I can still fly the plane so if a gunner is dead, I still fly the plane as well because I am not the gunner, I am the pilot, and the pilot is still alive.

to say it fast: When I use a gunner station, I am still the pilot, I am not the gunner: I am commanding the gunner guy. Proof: I am still piloting the plane while I use the gun station.

No, you are right! In real life the pilot or co-pilot did not not switch places. But in the game they can do that...it's to make the game more fun to play. To be honest, for full realism you should not be able to access any of the other stations on multicrew aircraft, only the first-pilot seat.
Don't know what you have your game settings on but when I leave the pilot seat to enter another station the AI flies the plane for me. I'm not both pilot and gunner at the same time since that would be highly unrealistic.

But hey...since you to want realism I suggest we petition TD to restrict all other stations exept for the pilot seat to AI use only. That way we can only fly the bombers. That would make it easier for TD to give us more new bombers aswell since they won't have to bother with creating internal looks for all other the stations except for the flight deck. Would that be realistic enough for you?

[Tolwyn]

I've never seen so many non-answers to a post before.

In single-player mode, the game has a limitation that a plane can only have one "flying" intelligence as the pilot. EITHER human OR AI. If you select the pilot, only you can control that object in the simulator. If you choose to go to a gunner and get killed, the plane can not be controlled any longer.

In COOP mode, this can be achieved ONLY IF the other human selects the CO-pilot position.

If pilot dies AND IF pilot has already assigned/given control to buttons and axis to CO PILOT before the pilot dies, then co-pilot can control the plane.

[Nil]

Originally Posted by Verdun1916

No, you are right! In real life the pilot or co-pilot did not not switch places. But in the game they can do that...it's to make the game more fun to play. To be honest, for full realism you should not be able to access any of the other stations on multicrew aircraft, only the first-pilot seat.
Don't know what you have your game settings on but when I leave the pilot seat to enter another station the AI flies the plane for me. I'm not both pilot and gunner at the same time since that would be highly unrealistic.

But hey...since you to want realism I suggest we petition TD to restrict all other stations exept for the pilot seat to AI use only. That way we can only fly the bombers. That would make it easier for TD to give us more new bombers aswell since they won't have to bother with creating internal looks for all other the stations except for the flight deck. Would that be realistic enough for you?

No that would be not realistic enough for me.
I want that ; like the reality, we have only ONE life. Once we die, the game is not working anymore and you do not play it for the rest of your life.
Sounds stupid, uh? Same thing applies for this issue.

Originally Posted by Tolwyn

I've never seen so many non-answers to a post before.

In single-player mode, the game has a limitation that a plane can only have one "flying" intelligence as the pilot. EITHER human OR AI. If you select the pilot, only you can control that object in the simulator. If you choose to go to a gunner and get killed, the plane can not be controlled any longer.

In COOP mode, this can be achieved ONLY IF the other human selects the CO-pilot position.

If pilot dies AND IF pilot has already assigned/given control to buttons and axis to CO PILOT before the pilot dies, then co-pilot can control the plane.

That is why I would like to remove this limitation , so using turret stations would have more interest , sounds logical as they are modeled with hard work

It is so much enjoyable to be the pilot AND the gunner, that is why gunner stations are modeled.

[Verdun1916]

Originally Posted by Nil

No that would be not realistic enough for me.
I want that ; like the reality, we have only ONE life. Once we die, the game is not working anymore and you do not play it for the rest of your life.
Sounds stupid, uh? Same thing applies for this issue.


That is why I would like to remove this limitation , so using turret stations would have more interest , sounds logical as they are modeled with hard work

It is so much enjoyable to be the pilot AND the gunner, that is why gunner stations are modeled.

Hey, you were the one posting that it 's not realistic enough. Not me! I have no problem with the way it is right now.

[Nil]

"not realistic" is only one of the argument, and of course anybody can make fun and troll about it like you did because it is just a simulator, or a game, whatever you call it.
But I am serious, this is not a topic for entertaining people, it is about a real issue.
One of the other reason is to not waste our real time life which is not virtual but real.
It is not fun to have a gunner killed and not be able to continue flying even if the pilot is still alive.
In some single player games, you can take control of IA, like IL2 Cliff of Dover (I believe but not sure), B17 and others, which allows us to use our precious time life more in a effective way and not waste our time to hit fly again, take off , navigate...
I which I can create my own simulator , listen the community, take their feedback, modify the sim ... but that is an another story

[Marabekm]

Originally Posted by Nil

"not realistic" is only one of the argument, and of course anybody can make fun and troll about it like you did because it is just a simulator, or a game, whatever you call it.
But I am serious, this is not a topic for entertaining people, it is about a real issue.
One of the other reason is to not waste our real time life which is not virtual but real.
It is not fun to have a gunner killed and not be able to continue flying even if the pilot is still alive.
In some single player games, you can take control of IA, like IL2 Cliff of Dover (I believe but not sure), B17 and others, which allows us to use our precious time life more in a effective way and not waste our time to hit fly again, take off , navigate...
I which I can create my own simulator , listen the community, take their feedback, modify the sim ... but that is an another story

I can see that.
So why not just uncheck the realistic pilot vulnerability setting under difficulty options. This way you can't die. (I do not know if it applies to gunners. Perhaps test and let us know.) There really is no need to get upset over a non-issue.

[Nil]

Thank you Marabekm,
I did not test "pilot vulnerability" for gunner and to be honest, I completely forgot this option as I always fly at the max difficulty.

But what I asked for our mighty Daidalos Team is to have the ability to not die when we use a gunner station. The view goes automatically to pilot view, and if the pilot die, of course it is game over.
Note that on some plane it is possible that an another crew member take the role of the pilot, but I guess it is too much to ask.

[Verdun1916]

Originally Posted by Nil

"not realistic" is only one of the argument, and of course anybody can make fun and troll about it like you did because it is just a simulator, or a game, whatever you call it.
But I am serious, this is not a topic for entertaining people, it is about a real issue.
One of the other reason is to not waste our real time life which is not virtual but real.
It is not fun to have a gunner killed and not be able to continue flying even if the pilot is still alive.
In some single player games, you can take control of IA, like IL2 Cliff of Dover (I believe but not sure), B17 and others, which allows us to use our precious time life more in a effective way and not waste our time to hit fly again, take off , navigate...
I which I can create my own simulator , listen the community, take their feedback, modify the sim ... but that is an another story

My intention was certainly not to troll at all! But simply to put my thoughts on the subject! I have never had the problem you claim to have here. Yet you brought up the point of realism. And to be honest, as a pure gamer I have no problems with the possibility og changing places in mulicrew Aircrafts in-game. But from a realism-standpoint it's not realistic at all to be able to change places from pilot seat to te rest in mid flight. So I put forth my idea of an added realism setting that would be nice to have for those who want to have the added realism it brings. if you don't like that idea that's frankly not my problem. I'm entitled to an opinion of my own just as you are entitled to an opinion of your own.

And I like the fact that if you change seats from pilot to a gunner seat and get killed there the mission is over! Just as if you were killed while sitting in the pilot seat. I think so because I see it as you play the pilot character you have created and he is the pilot. And it's not realistic that he would just switch seats with one of the other crewmembers in midflight (but as a pure fun-factor we can do that). But if a pilot would do that in real life anyway, and he would be killed on a gunner station for instance he would be dead just the same. And if it was a single pilot aircraft the plane would most likely crash since none of the other crewmember would have any pilot training. So for me I like the fact that if I get killed after I have switched to another station the mission is over since it brings an additional level of realism. That is not me trolling! That is me posting my opinion. And I also think it would be nice, for added realism, to have a setting to choose from were you could switch between the way it is now or pilot-only.

So that is my opinion on this matter! But that is still not me trolling! It's just me having a diffrent opinion on this matter than you. Not all of us enjoys "multitasking" when it comes to the multicrew aircraft just because you do. Many of us just enjoy to (only) fly them and like having the AI taking care of the rest. I'm sorry if you can't handle that, mate!

[Janosch]

Originally Posted by Verdun1916

So for me I like the fact that if I get killed after I have switched to another station the mission is over since it brings an additional level of realism.

This sounds fair in a side-by-side pilot/copilot type situation in a bomber, but it would be unfair for planes like Bf-110 where it's pretty much physically impossible to switch positions between the two (modeled) seats. So, since AI is AI, and human is human (usually human is smarter than AI and therefore makes the decisions), in a situation where you can't get humans to man all seats, it would be better to not kill the player - that is to say the ability to continue playing as a pilot (because you started the mission as a pilot, after all, by Jove) if a gunner dies. Because AI gunner can't even properly report bandits, merely looking through the eyes of a rear gunner is often vital for two seaters. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that, since nobody really flies planes that have bigger crew than two, maybe B5N being the rare exception.

There's one funny thing about switching stations. If you're using a custom pilot skin, it actually gets swapped if you look at your plane from an external view. I strongly object to this feature.