4.13 development update discussion and feedback

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Music

Did the Germans have a lot of them? And were they effective, I know Europe have a extensive rail net work, but they are still limited to that network, and I would assume fairly easy to find from the air, and destroy.

Armored trains were relatively rare units, and were mostly useful for defending strategic points along rail lines, and for anti-partisan ops (to defend against saboteurs attempting to destroy rail lines). There were used by Germany and the USSR on the Eastern Front and by Japan in China.

As air power got better, armored trains became less effective both because they could more easily be destroyed by air, and because larger bombs could easily destroy railroad tracks.

Once "locomotive busting" ops got really well developed in the later war years, locomotives and rolling stock had to be well camouflaged and/or hidden in tunnels or deep culverts to hide them from view.

[Pursuivant]

Questions for TD:

I'm currently working my way through the Australian, New Zealand and UK orders of battle, with an eye towards "improving" them like I did for the USAAF.

1) Is this effort useful or am I wasting my time? Can more units be added to RegInfo/RegShort without blowing up the game or making it too slow to load?

2) If I add new units to the game, is it required that I add squadron crests (seldom used on actual aircraft) and/or fuselage letter codes?

With time, I can add this info for most units.

3) Many Australian and New Zealand units served with the RAF. Some ML-KNIL (Dutch East Indies AF) units served under RAAF control. How should I include these units in the game?

If you're choosing a squadron in the QMB or a campaign, it makes more sense to include RNZAF, RAAF, etc. units under the appropriate nationality.

But, if you're choosing a squadron in the FMB, it makes more sense to include those units under the appropriate controlling formation (i.e., RAF or RAAF).

In terms of the game, you need the appropriate nationality in order to get the correct language pack to load.

4) Would there be any interest in adding other British Commonwealth nations to the game? If there's interest, I could do orders of battle for Canada, India, South Africa, and possibly Rhodesia. Units from those nations served in the Middle East, Italy, Europe and/or Pacific, mostly under RAF command.

By default, these new nations could use US, UK, Australian or NZ voice packs until you get actual, proper voice packs. (US voice pack for Canada, NZ voice pack for SA & Rhodesia, UK voice pack for India. Apologies to any actual Canadians, South Africans, Zimbabweans, or Indians reading this.)

5) Would there be any interest in adding China to the game? I can add the 1941-1945 "Nationalist" Chinese (Republic of China AF) squadrons. Currently, my USAAF OOB includes a few Chinese American Composite Group squadrons which historically carried the Nationalist AF insignia, like the AVG did.

6) Would there be any interest in adding Manchukou or other minor Allied and Axis nations to the game? I can provide national insignia and perhaps OOB info, but obviously not voice packs.

Missing Axis Nations which fielded Air Forces: Bulgaria, Iraq, RSI (Repubblica Sociale Italiana), Vichy France.

Missing Allied Nations which fielded Air Forces: Belgium, Brazil, China, Canada, Czechloslovakia, Denmark, Free France, Greece, India, Mexico, Norway, Philippines, South Africa, Yugoslavia.

[Sita]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Questions for TD:

I'm currently working my way through the Australian, New Zealand and UK orders of battle, with an eye towards "improving" them like I did for the USAAF.

1) Is this effort useful or am I wasting my time? Can more units be added to RegInfo/RegShort without blowing up the game or making it too slow to load?

2) If I add new units to the game, is it required that I add squadron crests (seldom used on actual aircraft) and/or fuselage letter codes?

With time, I can add this info for most units.

3) Many Australian and New Zealand units served with the RAF. Some ML-KNIL (Dutch East Indies AF) units served under RAAF control. How should I include these units in the game?

If you're choosing a squadron in the QMB or a campaign, it makes more sense to include RNZAF, RAAF, etc. units under the appropriate nationality.

But, if you're choosing a squadron in the FMB, it makes more sense to include those units under the appropriate controlling formation (i.e., RAF or RAAF).

In terms of the game, you need the appropriate nationality in order to get the correct language pack to load.

4) Would there be any interest in adding other British Commonwealth nations to the game? If there's interest, I could do orders of battle for Canada, India, South Africa, and possibly Rhodesia. Units from those nations served in the Middle East, Italy, Europe and/or Pacific, mostly under RAF command.

By default, these new nations could use US, UK, Australian or NZ voice packs until you get actual, proper voice packs. (US voice pack for Canada, NZ voice pack for SA & Rhodesia, UK voice pack for India. Apologies to any actual Canadians, South Africans, Zimbabweans, or Indians reading this.)

5) Would there be any interest in adding China to the game? I can add the 1941-1945 "Nationalist" Chinese (Republic of China AF) squadrons. Currently, my USAAF OOB includes a few Chinese American Composite Group squadrons which historically carried the Nationalist AF insignia, like the AVG did.

6) Would there be any interest in adding Manchukou or other minor Allied and Axis nations to the game? I can provide national insignia and perhaps OOB info, but obviously not voice packs.

Missing Axis Nations which fielded Air Forces: Bulgaria, Iraq, RSI (Repubblica Sociale Italiana), Vichy France.

Missing Allied Nations which fielded Air Forces: Belgium, Brazil, China, Canada, Czechloslovakia, Denmark, Free France, Greece, India, Mexico, Norway, Philippines, South Africa, Yugoslavia.

Hello))

it's interesting) ...


but at first i must say that in 4.13.1 already added some about 900 differnt squadrons maded by our closest ally Motorhead VMF-214 ...

so at current moment USAAF theme is closed at some about 90 percent
ws added all squadrons which was really in battles ...
( no any transports or Recon squads )

also ... was maded and added in 4.13.1 all(or almost all squads ) for RAFs/Canada/New Zealand/Australia/South Africa/The Indian Air Force/Polish and French squads ... (French for 1939 till 1940 time period)

in that case ... from what you prupose ... you can pay attention on following things ...


Missing Axis Nations:
- Bulgaria
- Iraq
- RSI (Repubblica Sociale Italiana)
- Vichy France

Missing Allied Nations:
- Belgium
- Brazil
- China
- Czechloslovakia
- Denmark
- Free France
- Greece
- Mexico
- Norway
- Philippines
- Yugoslavia

remark: Free France squadrons under RAF control is added in 4.13.1.

but i must warn you ... that in current moment we didn't think about adding new Nations ... but if it will be made properly .. i think it wuold be not hard to add it in patch .. if it wil be made correct ..

[Sita]

in fact ... all that work with new squads deserve to be new DevUp)))

Motorhead VMF-214 made HUGE work with it...

[shelby]

for greece check here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Italian_War
The Royal Hellenic Air Force (Ellinikí Vasilikí Aeroporía, RHAF) had to face the numerically and technologically superior Regia Aeronautica. It comprised 45 fighters, 24 light bombers, nine reconnaissance aircraft, about 65 auxiliary aeroplanes and 28 naval cooperation aircraft. It consisted of the 21st, 22nd, 23rd and 24th pursuit squadrons, the 31st, 32nd, 33rd bomber squadrons, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th military cooperation squadrons, the 2828 Independent Military Cooperation Flight and the 11th, 12th and 13th naval cooperation squadrons. At the outbreak of the war the operational combat fleet of the Greek Air Force counted 24 PZL P.24 and nine Bloch MB.151 fighters, as well as eleven Bristol Blenheim Mk IV, ten Fairey Battle B.1 and eight Potez 633 B2 bombers.[83] Serviceable ground attack and naval support aircraft included about nine Breguet 19 two-seater biplane bombers, 15 Henschel Hs 126 reconnaissance and observation aircraft, 17 Potez 25A observation aircraft, nine Fairey III amphibious reconnaissance aircraft, 12 Dornier Do 22G torpedo bombers, and 9 Avro Anson maritime reconnaissance aircraft.[84] The main air bases were located in Sedes, Larissa, Dekeleia, Faleron, Eleusis, Nea Anchialos and Maleme.[83]

Britain

On 22 October 1940, six days before the Italian invasion of Greece, despite the Italian invasion of Egypt, the RAF Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief Middle East in Cairo was ordered to prepare squadrons for Greece, based on Ultra decodes and other sources that an Italian invasion of Greece was imminent.[85] The RAF first sent 30 Squadron, consisting of one flight of Blenheim IF night fighters and one flight of Blenheim I light bombers, that were based at Athens-Eleusis airfield.[86] Soon afterwards, six Vickers Wellington medium bombers were detached from 70 Squadron and a flight of Blenheim Is from 84 Squadron arrived. All RAF assets were placed under the command of Air vice-marshal John D'Albiac.[87] The RAF aircraft participated in the Greek counter-offensive that began on 14 November, with No. 84 Squadron operating forward from Menidi.[88] A few days later, the Gloster Gladiator fighters of 80 Squadron moved forward to Trikala, causing significant losses to the Regia Aeronautica.[89] 211 Squadron with Blenheim Is, followed before the end of November, joining 84 Squadron at Menidi and 80 Squadron moved to Yannina, about 64 kilometres (40 mi) from the Albanian border. In the first week of December, 14 Gladiators were transferred from the RAF to the RHAF.[90]

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by shelby

for greece check here

Adding the Greek campaigns to the game would be hard. You'd have to add so many new objects, maps and aircraft that it would almost be a whole new game!

It makes more sense to just add the Greek squadrons which served in the RAF, with the appropriate awards, voice packs, etc.

Getting squadron names/numbers, ranks, awards, and national markings graphics for small air forces is easy. Getting squadron insignia is harder. Getting squadron codes and command hierarchy info is even harder, sometimes impossible. Info on tactics, readiness, training levels, etc. is also hard to find.

[Sita]

i must say few words about Motorhead VMF-214.

he is very good company maker .. you can find his works on Aviaskins ...

some time ago he realized that he need for his campaings some squads which isn't in il2 .... and he spend some about two years for it ...

my point is ... he added mosty that squads which he considired like important for company makers ... and for his self at first ...

and now his answer for your questions ...

But, did he get the early war units rather than just the "numbered" USAAF air forces?

early war units was addad only that which could be used and useful in some campaings ...

Did he correct errors in the existing order of battle?

yep ....

I've added all the transport, liaison, recon, and air rescue squadrons to the USAAF OOB, but only when they were actually in combat.

i added Transportation squads that I need to campaign intelligence and other similar there to a minimum. Well, it makes no sense add all connected Squadron, which flew some L-5, the Sentinel, because the aircraft will be only a few times.

Do these designations include wing and command information, or is it just a list of numbered squadrons? The first is better for both
players and mission builders

No signs of belonging to the wing and the more command is not present. In contrast to the USAAF, RAF squadrons, most of the war more than once
transferred from one wing to the other. In this situation, it makes no sense to add more of the same squadron with only a postscript to a different wing.

But, by doing that, you'll have the wrong language pack! Your Czech and French squadrons flying for the RAF will speak British English,
and your Dutch squadrons flying for the RAAF will speak Australian dialect English!

As far as I know, foreign pilots in the RAF specifically studied English. French or Polish, then again, if I am not mistaken, all
It is forbidden to use in radio, not to create chaos in communication with ground controllers.



you are going to use the fact that the offer to add?
you are going to do the campaign on a high level of detail, and will use all of these connected and rescue squads?

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Sita

but at first i must say that in 4.13.1 already added some about 900 differnt squadrons made by our closest ally Motorhead VMF-214 ...

So, it sounds like someone else has already done the work.

But, did he get the early war units rather than just the "numbered" USAAF air forces?

Did he correct errors in the existing order of battle?

My work might aid his work there.

Originally Posted by Sita

(not any transports or Recon squads )

I've added all the transport, liaison, recon, and air rescue squadrons to the USAAF OOB, but only when they were actually in combat.

Originally Posted by Sita

also ... was maded and added in 4.13.1 all(or almost all squads ) for RAFs/Canada/New Zealand/Australia/South Africa/The Indian Air Force/Polish and French squads ... (French for 1939 till 1940 time period)

Do these designations include wing and command information, or is it just a list of numbered squadrons? The first is better for both players and mission builders.

Originally Posted by Sita

remark: Free France squadrons under RAF control is added in 4.13.1.

So, RAF and RAAF squadrons composed of foreign personnel, but under RAF or RAF control, should be listed under RAF or RAAF listings.

But, by doing that, you'll have the wrong language pack! Your Czech and French squadrons flying for the RAF will speak British English, and your Dutch squadrons flying for the RAAF will speak Australian dialect English!

Originally Posted by Sita

that in current moment we didn't think about adding new Nations ... but if it will be made properly .. i think it wuold be not hard to add it in patch .. if it wil be made correct ..

Getting unit information is easy. Getting unit badges and squadron codes might be harder. Voice packs would be the most difficult since it requires getting fans who are fluent in the appropriate languages to do voice recordings.

Currently, there is an "all nations" mod which does a very good job of adding new nations and insignia to the game, but isn't so good for units and squadron insignia.

[dimlee]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Armored trains were relatively rare units, and were mostly useful for defending strategic points along rail lines, and for anti-partisan ops (to defend against saboteurs attempting to destroy rail lines). There were used by Germany and the USSR on the Eastern Front and by Japan in China.

As air power got better, armored trains became less effective both because they could more easily be destroyed by air, and because larger bombs could easily destroy railroad tracks.

Once "locomotive busting" ops got really well developed in the later war years, locomotives and rolling stock had to be well camouflaged and/or hidden in tunnels or deep culverts to hide them from view.

There was one lucky armored train during seige of Sevastopol in 1941-1942.
It has survived from Nov 1941 until the days of the 3rd (and final) German sturm in June 1942. 100mm marine guns, 7.62mm and 12.7 mm machine guns, mortars. Two engines, workshop and team of repairmen. Camouflage adapted to season and terrain. Local landscape and tunnels (there are 5 of them near the city) allowed the train to escape and hide after raids.
It has been damaged and blocked inside of rail tunnel after another Luftwaffe attack. Germans has restored and requipped the train and used it until May 1944.

Wiki (Russian):
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%96...D0%B7%D0%B4%29