More twin Engine flyables in IL-2 1946

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by dimlee

I heard it on Il-2 but rarely. Probably on Bf-110 as well.

You hear it very occasionally. Officially, it's in all the voice packs.

Practically, it seems that very few multi-crew planes have gunners who will speak to you. The IL-2, SBD, and the Bf-110 have it, other multi-crew planes don't seem to have it. It must be something that has to be coded into the AI for each plane.

But, having a "talkative" gunner is a mixed blessing. Often their calls to break left or right are wrong, and more often than not you get the "What are you doing!" gunner freak out, which is just annoying. (After all, you're in command of the damned plane, so you should be able to tell the gunner to put up and shut up or else.)

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by dimlee

Just quickly draw a list: model - times mentioned in this thread.

Another good way to measure desire for planes that aren't in the game is to go to Mission 4 Today and check to see which "hack" skins are most popular. For example, A-20C or Ki-21 as Douglas Maryland or Baltimore, H8K "Emily" as Short Sunderland.

[dimlee]

Good ideas, Pursuivant - as usually.

About 2 engine planes additions.
Pe-3 - we miss one "late war" modification with M-105PF engines. Just 19 units were in operation, so I can't say this is first priority, but stil...
Also more weapon options are welcome for Pe-3/Pe-3bis. Rockets, may be grenades if they can be modelled (based on parafrags?). And certainly fuel tanks which were quite common, especially in Navy units.

[Janosch]

I'd appreciate if the AI gunners didn't try to shoot at planes that are e.g. missing a wing, or are already being chased away by friendly escorts. What a wonderful way to waste ammunition, and give the opponents an extra opportunity to spot you from a distance!

I'd like to have the earlier Bf 110s as flyables, but that's mostly because they would fit nicely into early war scenarios and settings. The thing is, I don't think they would bring that much new to the table, gameplay wise. The Ki-45, for example, is just a Bf 110 on steroids - at a first glance, but it brought the schräge musik - cannons into the game, even if there are only so many chances to use them effectively. All in all, the early 110s addition would make more sense than some dull and/or forgettable level bombers.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Janosch

I'd appreciate if the AI gunners didn't try to shoot at planes that are e.g. missing a wing, or are already being chased away by friendly escorts.

Fire discipline for gunners, as well as ability to tell friend from foe, should be linked to gunner quality. Rookie gunners should do all the stupid things that AI gunners currently do, and more.

Originally Posted by Janosch

What a wonderful way to waste ammunition, and give the opponents an extra opportunity to spot you from a distance!

Exactly. Veteran gunners know those tricks. Rookies are likely to forget in the heat of battle.

Originally Posted by Janosch

I'd like to have the earlier Bf 110s as flyables, but that's mostly because they would fit nicely into early war scenarios and settings.

There's also the problem that many of the proposed new planes don't have proper maps where they can fly.

For example, a plane like the Spitfire Mk V or Tempest seem most "natural" on an English Channel map that stretches from Dover to Calais, rather than over Normandy. Rare birds like the IK-3 or the PZL.11c literally have no map to call home.

Ideally, new aircraft should also come with an appropriate map to fly over. For example, the Adriatic Coast for the IK-3, or the Polish coast for the PZL.11c.

Originally Posted by Janosch

All in all, the early 110s addition would make more sense than some dull and/or forgettable level bombers.

More variants of existing planes would make sense, but there are a few places where there are gaps in a particular country's "Order of Battle," and it isn't appropriate to use an earlier/later model of an existing plane.

[iMattheush]

In some mods there are also beautiful models of PZL.37B "Łoś", and it will be nice to see it, even AI only... But definitely easier is to bring us earlier models of Bf 110 B/C

[gaunt1]

Originally Posted by iMattheush

In some mods there are also beautiful models of PZL.37B "Łoś", and it will be nice to see it, even AI only... But definitely easier is to bring us earlier models of Bf 110 B/C

Pilot's cockpit for Bf 110C is indeed relatively easy to make, some instruments are arranged a bit differently, thats all. The problem is rear gunner, that is totally different unfortunately. Especially, the opening part of the canopy for the MG. (an interim solution would be that gunner is AI only. This way, we could have more important variants, like the best of the 110 line, the F2, or the long range D)

I'd really like to see a Ju-88C6a too, I think it is also not that hard to make. Most of the cockpit could be ported straight from A4.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

an interim solution would be that gunner is AI only. This way, we could have more important variants, like the best of the 110 line, the F2, or the long range D

Always wondered why that is not a viable solution, considering that most pilots will not ever use the rear gunner and in IL-2 Field mod its not different(for other reasons, okay).

[Tinpanzer87]

JU-88 Night fighter . Flyable FW-189

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by majorfailure

Always wondered why that is not a viable solution, considering that most pilots will not ever use the rear gunner and in IL-2 Field mod its not different(for other reasons, okay).

Plenty of pilots will use the tail gunner - at least in some situations.

For example, it's sometimes handy to do a quick "jump" to your rear gunner's station just prior to combat, or during a lull, to get a read on the situation to your rear.

As another example, if you're flying a mission where you have to fly straight and level to and from the target, and you run into fighters along the way, then often it's more effective, and fun, to man a gunner's station.

But, your point is valid. If the IL2 game has managed to have one of the original planes in the game - the IL2 FM - without a rear gunner station for all these years, then why not make more planes flyable by just adding a cockpit?