Suggestions for FMB features

[Tennie]

While using the FMB, I've noticed an issue that's made it quite challenging (and frustratingly so on many occasions) for me to make a mission:

I've been trying to get several flights of bombers to fly in formation, remaining at the same designated altitudes throughout most of the flight. However, I've noticed that on maps with rugged terrain (e.g. Slovakia), it's frustratingly hard to keep them at those altitudes (for example, I'd have two waypoints both be set at, say, 5000 meters in altitude, but one would be situated on a point about a couple hundred meters or so higher/lower than the other, leading to the flight in question immediately climbing/descending noticeably higher/lower once they reach the first waypoint).

I figured out that the problem is that the altitude setting in the FMB is in reference to "Above Ground Level" (AGL), as opposed to "Above Sea Level" (ASL). Now, trying to translate AGL to ASL with regards to especially rugged/complex terrain is extremely tedious work, since there is currently no readily available way (that I know of, anyway) to instantly display the altitude of the ground level at any point on the map in the FMB.

I want to suggest some ways to fix this:

First, a means of being able to switch from using AGL to ASL or vice versa when typing in the altitude setting of flight waypoints. This feature could allow me and others the freedom to build constant-altitude flight paths or flight paths that hug the terrain (the latter of which could be especially useful in making missions that involve having planes flying essentially nape-of-the-earth through enemy territory).

Second, a means of telling the exact altitude of a ground feature in the FMB (perhaps via a setting that allows it to be displayed next to the cursor?).

Of course, since version 4.13 seems to be nearing its completion stage, I would recommend that the addition of these features be started either on 4.13.1 or 4.14 (I'll leave it up to you guys at TD to decide which one).

Anyway, I would appreciate it if these features are implemented (and doubtless more than a few others as well)!

[Aviar]

A big thumbs-up for this request. (Mission builders will understand.)

Aviar

[RPS69]

Yeah! I tried to do a mission using the Po-2 at low loevel on a night mission, and I was forced to put them higher and higher, because there are some funny things happening with the heavyweight of WP set altiude and planes attitude in between them. There was a threshold where they stopped crashing, but I needed to find it by trial and error.

I don't know if FROG's formation MOD helps on this.

[Tuphlandng]

This is a wonderful Idea
It sure could speed things up for mission building
I cant say how many times I watched a flight crash into a hill Over and Over again before I found the correct altitude
The avoidance recently added Does help some But the stragglers crash better then 50% of the time

Im wondering how long it would take to fix the maps and if it is possible

Thank you TD for all your fine Outstanding work

[ECV56_Guevara]

Good suggestion. And related to formations, could be usefull to add more options in planes numbers to the formation itself. i.e. formatios of 8 or 12 planes.

[RPS69]

Originally Posted by ECV56_Guevara

Good suggestion. And related to formations, could be usefull to add more options in planes numbers to the formation itself. i.e. formatios of 8 or 12 planes.

Also, but your sugestion makes me remember that bomber formations were not based on four airplanes but three on a VIC. The finger four was a formation developed by the germans, and other countrys wil adopt it much later.

It is almost imposible to make the AI behave acordingly to this kind of formation. They will allways fly as a pair with the third element being a wingmanless leader.

Very annoying when you try to represent inital wartime engagements.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by RPS69

It is almost impossible to make the AI behave accordingly to this kind of formation. They will always fly as a pair with the third element being a wingmanless leader.

+1

Individual AI in the game is quite good, but more work needs to be done for section, flight and squadron AI.

Some simple (because it involves turning off existing AI options) fixes for early war fighter "vic" formations, and for bomber formations, would be as follows:

1) Option for "3 plane sections" (the default is 2 plane sections).

2) Option for "wingmen hold formation with leader". That is, the trailing planes in a section or vic will slavishly try to follow the lead plane in the formation, rather than adopting a "loose deuce" trailing wingman posture.

3) Option for "Sections will not take evasive action". This is critical to get heavy bombers flying in a "box" to behave in a realistic fashion. It can also be used to simulate the behavior of early war Soviet and Japanese pilots who were notorious for following their leader at all costs.

4) Option for "Attack as a unit". This allows for the early war British tactic of having all the planes in a fighter vic attack as one.


Things that would would take more AI work:

1) Reducing SA of pilots attempting to hold close formation with their leader.

2) Getting sections to use simple team tactics like the "Thach Weave," "Drag and Bag," or coordinated attacks on a single foe.

3) Getting flights or squadrons to use simple team tactics, like assigning one section (or flight) to hold altitude while another section/flight attacks, assuming a "bomber box" formation, or forming a Lufberry Circle.

4) Setting rally points. That is, a player designated "waypoint" on the map where planes which are isolated from the rest of the formation will travel to and loiter around.

5) Ability to regroup sections/flights. For example, if you have two sections which have each lost one plane, you should have the option of assigning one surviving plane as lead and the other surviving plane as wingman to form a new section.

Veteran or Ace pilots should automatically regroup in this way based on rank or initial flight position. For example, if if the lead from section 2 loses his wingman, and the wingman from section 3 loses his lead, then they should automatically reformate with section 2 leader as leader and section 3 wingman as wingman in a new section.

6) Ability to reassign section, wing or squadron command, with planes changing position accordingly. This is important if a leader is injured or his plane is damaged.

Historically, it was very important for U.S. heavy bomber formations, since the entire squadron (sometimes group or wing) would drop their bombs based on the lead bombardier's signal. As such, if the lead bomber had to drop out of formation, the second in command would move into the lead spot.

[ECV56_Guevara]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

+1

Individual AI in the game is quite good, but more work needs to be done for section, flight and squadron AI.

Some simple (because it involves turning off existing AI options) fixes for early war fighter "vic" formations, and for bomber formations, would be as follows:

1) Option for "3 plane sections" (the default is 2 plane sections).

2) Option for "wingmen hold formation with leader". That is, the trailing planes in a section or vic will slavishly try to follow the lead plane in the formation, rather than adopting a "loose deuce" trailing wingman posture.

3) Option for "Sections will not take evasive action". This is critical to get heavy bombers flying in a "box" to behave in a realistic fashion. It can also be used to simulate the behavior of early war Soviet and Japanese pilots who were notorious for following their leader at all costs.

4) Option for "Attack as a unit". This allows for the early war British tactic of having all the planes in a fighter vic attack as one.


Things that would would take more AI work:

1) Reducing SA of pilots attempting to hold close formation with their leader.

2) Getting sections to use simple team tactics like the "Thach Weave," "Drag and Bag," or coordinated attacks on a single foe.

3) Getting flights or squadrons to use simple team tactics, like assigning one section (or flight) to hold altitude while another section/flight attacks, assuming a "bomber box" formation, or forming a Lufberry Circle.

4) Setting rally points. That is, a player designated "waypoint" on the map where planes which are isolated from the rest of the formation will travel to and loiter around.

5) Ability to regroup sections/flights. For example, if you have two sections which have each lost one plane, you should have the option of assigning one surviving plane as lead and the other surviving plane as wingman to form a new section.

Veteran or Ace pilots should automatically regroup in this way based on rank or initial flight position. For example, if if the lead from section 2 loses his wingman, and the wingman from section 3 loses his lead, then they should automatically reformate with section 2 leader as leader and section 3 wingman as wingman in a new section.

6) Ability to reassign section, wing or squadron command, with planes changing position accordingly. This is important if a leader is injured or his plane is damaged.

Historically, it was very important for U.S. heavy bomber formations, since the entire squadron (sometimes group or wing) would drop their bombs based on the lead bombardier's signal. As such, if the lead bomber had to drop out of formation, the second in command would move into the lead spot.

This!!!!
Not a single line wrong in here!