KBDS Normal/Hard/Impossible No-loss thread

[Zhuangzi]

Thanks for that, Matt. I will be referring to your post as I get further into the game

Me, I kited around Atrixus and got some Demons (13 wanted to join me!) and some loot. I also thought I'd buy a Fireball spell for 5000 gold. Now I need to upgrade Chaos Magic past level 1. Another devious trick is to go through the portal to Tristem. There's an invincible troop right there that can't be kited, but now that I have the Tristem map I can sail there and kite my way around, right?

[DGDobrev]

Seems our games are running similarly, mate

I opted against kiting the Portland guardians, cause they aren't that powerful anyway. I am using Scoffers, the starting 2 Demonesses (can't find any more), Demons, Demonoligists and Evil Beholders. I am getting um... re-used to the old KBAP tactic of kiting enemies into traps, as I have 4 at any point on the field, and I am not far away from a 5th. Swapping the best enemy archer unit is doing wonders too. Especially since I always try to swap them for a demon-summoned creature with a trap right behind it, lol - if you don't kill the ranged unit yourself, it will move a hex back and fall into the trap. Fun times

I haven't moved on to the other 2 islands, Inselburg and Monteville. I might do some scouting to see which ones provides better options.

[MattCaspermeyer]

Originally Posted by Zhuangzi

Thanks for that, Matt. I will be referring to your post as I get further into the game

Me, I kited around Atrixus and got some Demons (13 wanted to join me!) and some loot. I also thought I'd buy a Fireball spell for 5000 gold. Now I need to upgrade Chaos Magic past level 1. Another devious trick is to go through the portal to Tristem. There's an invincible troop right there that can't be kited, but now that I have the Tristem map I can sail there and kite my way around, right?

Wow! That's a ton of Demons! I was stuck with 1 Demon and 2 Demonesses for so long that when I finally was able to recruit them I was like forget it!

It is interesting that they now allow you to go through the portals to the other areas at the beginning as when I started, once you went to the catacombs, you could not go to any of the other places until you got their maps.

I couldn't even return to Atrixus because I was wanting to defeat the Knight that stole the demon child and it wouldn't let me go back. So then I just loaded an earlier save, rolled up my sleeves, and came up with a strategy to no loss him.

If memory serves, that fight got my another level and allowed me to do the big spider Catacombs stack and also made one of the Shelter or Whitehill fights easier.

Originally Posted by DGDobrev

Seems our games are running similarly, mate

I opted against kiting the Portland guardians, cause they aren't that powerful anyway. I am using Scoffers, the starting 2 Demonesses (can't find any more), Demons, Demonoligists and Evil Beholders. I am getting um... re-used to the old KBAP tactic of kiting enemies into traps, as I have 4 at any point on the field, and I am not far away from a 5th. Swapping the best enemy archer unit is doing wonders too. Especially since I always try to swap them for a demon-summoned creature with a trap right behind it, lol - if you don't kill the ranged unit yourself, it will move a hex back and fall into the trap. Fun times

I haven't moved on to the other 2 islands, Inselburg and Monteville. I might do some scouting to see which ones provides better options.

That's nice that you were able to get a Demonologist (or more?) as I could have used some during my EA playthrough. And you're right that once you are "trained" by the 3 shelter fights and the 3 Whitehill fights you should be able to do most of the fights on Portland with your paltry squad.

That's how I felt, anyway, when I went there, although I did run around at first checking out getting better troops (Evil Beholders) and grabbing leadership flags, etc. to get more troops (at least Imps, Scoffer Imps, and Cerberi as I was stuck with just 1 Demon and 2 Demonesses).

I only got the first level of the trapper skill and with the Paladin (Spirit) skill I got 4 traps as the enemies start to get stronger where it is a lot harder to get them to die when they hit a trap. I think I'm like 10 deaths from getting to level 2 trapper, but I've way surpassed its usefulness.

Well, I hope you guys have fun and enjoy it. I do think it is better than WotN (I got I&F, but never played it) as I got tired of fighting Undead troops by about the time I got to Greenwort. After Guildford shows his true colors, I thought it would have been nice to see Undead variants of humans, dwarves, and elves and we now have them in DS!

/C\/C\

[DGDobrev]

To me, traps are not for killing - I use them to hinder the enemy. If enemy falls into a trap, it can't hit you, and if it can't hit you, you are one step closer to winning the fight without losses. Simple as that

As for the demonologists, well, if that demonologist demoness in Atrixus had no demonologist troops, I would have had her change her profession But then again, no Call Collosus scroll for me yet.

[MattCaspermeyer]

Originally Posted by DGDobrev

To me, traps are not for killing - I use them to hinder the enemy. If enemy falls into a trap, it can't hit you, and if it can't hit you, you are one step closer to winning the fight without losses. Simple as that

Yep you got it! It's just that you can't increase the medal without actually killing the stack so that's why I've pretty much been stuck at just 4. You really got to work to get the trapper skill up - been that way since AP.

Originally Posted by DGDobrev

As for the demonologists, well, if that demonologist demoness in Atrixus had no demonologist troops, I would have had her change her profession But then again, no Call Collosus scroll for me yet.

Yes - you're fired!

I think that must be a new character since I never saw her - unless you're referring to Pacca. I forget her profession. Nice to hear that they added some Demonologists to Atrixus at the start. I tend to be a fan of summoner troops and probably would have enjoyed it more with a Demonologist or two at the start.

As far as Scrolls of Colossus are concerned, don't worry, you will get one once you find a mage for the magic department (he's in Inselburg). If you're really lucky, you'll swap out a navigation map for one before that.

/C\/C\

[zjazd18]

Wow, i really wonder how you did those 3 fights at whitehill Matt, I quickly assumed those were impossible to do. But at least you confirmed that there were 3 fights necessary before release. So next challenge is to do beginning with Orc class.

I'm level 60 atm (rushed learning) my pet is 60 (full level) and still have 2 island to do, and helvadia, and i guess those final fights at whitehill. Game is pretty boring atm, all i do is summon dragons from dragon riders, summon demons with demonologists, summon more demons with demons and watch summons kill everything, if fight is going slow i raise dead with necromancers for more damage. Wanted to swap out demons for archdemons but if they died i had no way of resurrecting them, so i scratched that idea.

At the moment planing my vampire play-through, have already prepared save with trap spell. If anyone wants the save, pm me no battles were played just got trap from talking to witch, and it took some reloads to get one.

[DGDobrev]

Well, Matt, this NPC is very easy to miss. You know there are a few flying platforms in Atrixus. One of them leads to the traitor guy you need to eventually kill. There is another in the (middle?) of the map where the yellow circle-not-quite-pentagram thingy is, the area with the inn and the demon who had his son captured. If you take this flying platform, you will be taken to a small flying island where another Demonologist Demoness lives. She sells 4 spells in my game (Volcano, Armageddon and 2 weaker ones) + Demons and Demonologists.

Could have easily missed her out myself.

[Zhuangzi]

Originally Posted by DGDobrev

Well, Matt, this NPC is very easy to miss. You know there are a few flying platforms in Atrixus. One of them leads to the traitor guy you need to eventually kill. There is another in the (middle?) of the map where the yellow circle-not-quite-pentagram thingy is, the area with the inn and the demon who had his son captured. If you take this flying platform, you will be taken to a small flying island where another Demonologist Demoness lives. She sells 4 spells in my game (Volcano, Armageddon and 2 weaker ones) + Demons and Demonologists.

Could have easily missed her out myself.

Wow, I need to check this out. I love Demonologists.

In my game I have been able to grind my way through Portland now, killing everything on that island except for the fight against the 1 black dragon. Not sure how I can no loss this yet. So I'm off to Inselburg and Monteville for some goodies, then Atrixus to try to pick up some Demonologists. Then more grinding, I guess.

40 no loss fights done so far.

EDIT: yep, it's just like DG says, if you teleport to Atrixus you start on that yellow circle thingy, and there's a platform just off there which takes you up to the demonologist guy, Verdelet. He has 140 Demonologists, Volcano, Armageddon etc. So now I am very pleased with my team of Demonologists, Demons, Cerebuses, Scoffer Imps, Imps with my measly 2 Demonesses in reserve.

[DGDobrev]

I am progressing well so far. Tristem is a great location to open. Just go through the catacombs, poke your nose into Tristem (you will most likely aggro units on very narrow pathways, so you cant go past them), then go back into the catacombs. This is enough to open it as a location. Use Blackie to port you there - you won't regret it. I snagged 70 free orc Shamans, which seem to be quite OP. Thanks to adrenaline, their skills are available every round. I wouldn't go so far as to say it is broken, cause I have never played the orcs in the OOTM campaign that introduced adrenaline.

So right now I am sporting 2 Green Dragons (bought eggs), Demonologists, Necromancers, Shamans and Demons. Good times

[MattCaspermeyer]

Originally Posted by DGDobrev

Well, Matt, this NPC is very easy to miss. You know there are a few flying platforms in Atrixus. One of them leads to the traitor guy you need to eventually kill. There is another in the (middle?) of the map where the yellow circle-not-quite-pentagram thingy is, the area with the inn and the demon who had his son captured. If you take this flying platform, you will be taken to a small flying island where another Demonologist Demoness lives. She sells 4 spells in my game (Volcano, Armageddon and 2 weaker ones) + Demons and Demonologists.

Could have easily missed her out myself.

Hmmm... I think they must have added that, because all the platforms were broken (i.e. not working as the human invaders had really trashed the place) and there is nothing in the central yellow circle for me at least at the beginning of the game except for that big gate you can't go through.

Originally Posted by zjazd18

Wow, i really wonder how you did those 3 fights at whitehill Matt, I quickly assumed those were impossible to do. But at least you confirmed that there were 3 fights necessary before release. So next challenge is to do beginning with Orc class.

Yah, it was tough, but the two side stacks were weaker than the middle stack when I played and so I ended up doing the side stacks first. I think the first one I was level 5, but defeating them got me to level 6 and allowed me to pop back to the shelter and get a few more Imps / Scoffer Imps. My army was 18 Scoffer Imps, 1 Demon, 5 Cerberi, 2 Demonesses, and 28 Imps. Then I was able to get 3 more each of Imps / Scoffer Imps for the other two battles.

You basically have to use the Demonesses to swap their big shooter stack to your Demons with the Demon's summoned troop (and you use that troop to attack a secondary shooter if there is one near where you were swapped) and then once you take them out, the other troops are either slow so try to get them to walk onto a trap (you'll note that I have 4) or you can have your Demons absorb damage until they are down to about 30 or so life and then the Demonesses swap will be reloaded by that time and then you can have your Cerberi / Demonesses absorb the rest of the damage. I'm not joking about maxing out the damage absorption of all 3 of those troops, getting them down to 30, 20, or even fewer hitpoints. Also, under no circumstances, allow Bowmen to use their Cold Arrow on your troops (forget about no loss if that happens) or Priests / Inquisitors to use their "Healing" on your troops (if you've whittled them down a bit you might survive a "Healing" attack).

I've attached pictures of the 3 Whitehill stacks (in the order I defeated them) so you can get a feel for what I was up against compared to what you may have faced.

I actually have to find Verdelet for a quest and had no idea where he was - now I know he's in Atrixus. I've kind of been saving it for last as I have three islands left and then Helvedia and Atrixus.

Of the three islands, they are Aralan, Oakarland, and Galenrim. I have Aralan probably about 75% completed, Oakarland about 50% done, and Galenrim probably about 50% as well.

Actually in Helvedia, I was having trouble with the Demon troops believe it or not when I first went there about 10 levels ago (stacks of 43 ArchDemons would Fire Rain my single Dragon Rider stacks, but now that I've finally been able to max out my Dragon Riders I have 13, 12, and 13 in each stack so I'm ready for a rematch!).

By the way, be careful if you face Royal Griffins with dragons because they do either 1.5 or 2.0 times damage to dragons. That was a major ow! the first time I came up against that! I've also used it to my advantage with Call of Nature and I think I had a stack of 120 or so single-hit kill 43 Green Dragons!

By the way, the Armageddon spell is back to only damaging non-magic immune enemies and Dragon Riders are magic immune so it can't hurt them. I forget which games have it that way, but I know at least TL is that way, whereas I think they changed it in WotN where it even affects magic immune enemies.

At the rate I'm playing it'll probably take me a couple of weeks to finish the game no loss...

/C\/C\