Long bursts more effective than multiple short ones?

[Woke Up Dead]

I get the impression that in this game a long, on-target burst will do more damage than multiple short ones even if the sum of the short ones lands as many bullets as the long one. For example, I think I'm more likely to de-wing a plane if I hit it with 9 bullets at once on the wing, rather than three bullets at a time in three bursts on the same spot.

Am I right about this, or am I just imagining things? And if I'm right, is this realistic? Seems that two bullets on the spot ten seconds apart should do the same damage as two bullets on the same spot milliseconds apart.

[swiss]

probably a question for TD.

[MaxGunz]

It depends on if they hit the same 3D part that was not yet totally destroyed and then if that part or the next in line is critical.

Long bursts should be more prone to jamming guns and are a great way to waste ammo. Try flying a Yak1 for a while.

[IceFire]

Define long and short.

Against fighters I find that I will aim with intention of hitting, fire a short burst and if I see a hit then I will follow up with the same firing solution. If I miss then I reposition slightly, fire again and again look for a hit. It sounds like a lot but you can do this all in a second or two. Tap, check, tap, check until you connect and then you fire for a couple of seconds.

If you aren't killing the target in 2-3 seconds then you may not be connecting very well (especially with multi gun fighters like a P-47) and you need to re-aim for better effect.

The exception is bombers where you theoretically can be firing for a longer period of time and hitting frequently as bombers are less able to avoid and more able to take punishment.

That's about technique.

What you may be talking about is if there is anything different done to the damage in terms of game/sim world. So far as I know... no. If you hit then it counts the damage done to the piece that you hit. If you shoot in a short burst and then another short burst you may not hit the same area and therefore would need to do more damage to the target aircraft. A short but continuous stream is better because you're more likely to hit the same area with 2, 3, 4... or more, bullets and more likely to cause that part to fail which in IL-2 land means a fire, or structural detachment, etc.

There's also netcode to think about. You're likely to loose a few bullets every time you shoot. This is especially noticeable with slow firing 37mm cannons (as an example) where sometimes you'll hit with no effect. With a stream you're more likely to have your hits recorded. It may be a small percentage lost but it can happen.

So there's some intersection between technique and netcode to be wary of is basically what I'm saying

(Sorry for the essay)

[Woke Up Dead]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Define long and short.

Short: as short as possible, the quickest squeeze my finger can make.

Long: at least one second, one "scoobydoo" and a bit more.

Originally Posted by IceFire

What you may be talking about is if there is anything different done to the damage in terms of game/sim world. So far as I know... no. If you hit then it counts the damage done to the piece that you hit. If you shoot in a short burst and then another short burst you may not hit the same area and therefore would need to do more damage to the target aircraft. A short but continuous stream is better because you're more likely to hit the same area with 2, 3, 4... or more, bullets and more likely to cause that part to fail which in IL-2 land means a fire, or structural detachment, etc.

I think this is what I'm talking about, this makes sense. Thanks.

[Laurwin]

In real life,when using explisive charge munitions 20mm shell e.g.
In this case a rapid fire burst may be more efective.

Short delay between shell ignitions at target maximizes shrapnel effect

[Woke Up Dead]

Originally Posted by MaxGunz

It depends on if they hit the same 3D part that was not yet totally destroyed and then if that part or the next in line is critical.

Long bursts should be more prone to jamming guns and are a great way to waste ammo. Try flying a Yak1 for a while.

I do play in the old Yaks a lot, that's where I made my observations. I get so paranoid about running out of ammo that I fire stingy short bursts even when practicing on unarmed DC-3s. It's when I relax and squeeze the trigger a little longer that I get better results.

Another example: if I keep hitting enemy fighters with short bursts then they might lose controls or engines or get a PK or be full of holes, but they'll be in one piece. But sometimes I can get them to explode if, and only if I put a medium to long burst into them.

[Jumoschwanz]

Originally Posted by Woke Up Dead

I get the impression that in this game a long, on-target burst will do more damage than multiple short ones
Am I right about this, or am I just imagining things?

I agree that is a question for the guys that wrote the code.

I have not noticed anything of the sort though. I have blown an A-20 in half with a lucky short burst from a kilometer away with a single 20mm cannon, and then I have seen ammo poured into close up targets and have had them intact enough to fly home and land.

On hard settings where you have to learn to make blind shots where the target is hidden by part of your aircraft while you are shooting, the only time you are going to be really accurate landing long shots would be head-on or from dead-six, which is going to change the damage compared to a shot taken while a target is taking fire laid down for it to fly through while it is crossing your path at an angle.

Even the amount of G forces the target is handling can make the difference on whether or not part of it breaks off while it is taking hits.

S!

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Woke Up Dead

I get the impression that in this game a long, on-target burst will do more damage than multiple short ones even if the sum of the short ones lands as many bullets as the long one.
Am I right about this, or am I just imagining things?

Hitting the exact same spot twice with two short burst is more difficult than hitting it with a single longer burst IMHO. If I can fire from up close there seems to be no difference between two short bursts and a single longer one.
But any result can and will be skewd by your own perception - and randomization.

[MaxGunz]

Can you land a whole long burst in the same spot except from dead 6?
I find tail-shooting to be a waste of ammo.

Well, except with wing guns from real close but most of those hits go around the tail itself.
P-51 started out like that. Get close and one long burst blew up many fighters.