4.12.2 de-bugging

[Pursuivant]

More about the P-40 series.

Despite being described as a plane with "no vices" (Caldwell) it seems to be very difficult to recover from a high speed spin even when applying proper technique to stop it (kill throttle, full opposite rudder).

This despite the pilot's manual (here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/117829198/...-40-Warhawk-WW) stating that it should be possible to recover from a spin within 2 turns and 1-2,000 feet (~330-660 meters) loss of altitude. They don't say whether it's a low or high speed spin, however.

While it's for an earlier model, the pilot's notes for the Tomahawk (http://www.456fis.org/P-40_PILOT_MANUAL.htm) indicate that the plane should come out of the spin unless held. This seems different from my experience.

Using arcade mode, I'm noticing that I'm getting pilot kill hits from rifle-caliber MG shots directly from ahead or behind (through the front of the cockpit or fuselage), despite the fact that all but the Hawk 81/P-40A-B/Kittyhawk series the P-40 had armor or armor glass in those areas. (1.5 inches of armor glass, 7 mm of armor below the cockpit combing down to the engine block, 7 mm behind the pilot. The pilot's seat wasn't armored, however.)

Additionally, any hit to the front of the engine through the prop boss instantly (or nearly instantly) kills the engine.

Any hit from the front through the radiator housing kills the oil/cooling system, resulting in engine shutdown within about a minute. While this is legitimate, it's possible that the damage boxes for the cooler system are larger than they were in real life (see diagrams in the pilot's manual).

Reading maintenance manuals for the P-40, it appears that the coolant assemblies got slightly larger in later models but the oil cooler got smaller. The P-40D & E models have a frontal coolant radiator surface area of 1.11 square feet. The P-40F model has a frontal coolant radiator surface of 1.75 feet. The oil cooler is 95 square inches on the D & E models, 35 square inches on the F.

I'm still hunting on info about the armor around the P-40's engine.

Also, for a time U.S. P-40s in the U.S. were using 91 or 92 octane gas to preserve the 100 octane gas for flights in combat zones. I've seen, but can't find, comparative numbers for P-40 performance using both 100 and 91/92 octane fuel. It would be nice if it was possible to choose your fuel type, and it would definitely reduce arguments regarding aircraft performance.

[sniperton]

Old bug, dunno whether reported before:

Normandy map, near Caen, to the South of Louvigny, at 76.5:59.1, a wrong object, a vehicular road bridge is connecting two rail sections, making East-West rail traffic practically impossible for the whole Caen region.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Using arcade mode, I'm noticing that I'm getting pilot kill hits from rifle-caliber MG shots directly from ahead or behind (through the front of the cockpit or fuselage), despite the fact that all but the Hawk 81/P-40A-B/Kittyhawk series the P-40 had armor or armor glass in those areas. (1.5 inches of armor glass, 7 mm of armor below the cockpit combing down to the engine block, 7 mm behind the pilot. The pilot's seat wasn't armored, however.)

Additionally, any hit to the front of the engine through the prop boss instantly (or nearly instantly) kills the engine.

Any hit from the front through the radiator housing kills the oil/cooling system, resulting in engine shutdown within about a minute. While this is legitimate, it's possible that the damage boxes for the cooler system are larger than they were in real life (see diagrams in the pilot's manual).

There are a lot of problems with the 3D model for the P-40E and M... both are getting a make over for a future patch. Totally new 3D mesh and damage model systems... I don't know for a fact but I would make a guess that this may help with the poor damage modeling.

[idefix44]

Originally Posted by sniperton

Old bug, dunno whether reported before:

Normandy map, near Caen, to the South of Louvigny, at 76.5:59.1, a wrong object, a vehicular road bridge is connecting two rail sections, making East-West rail traffic practically impossible for the whole Caen region.

Near this bridge, going west, at Eterville, a house at 75,36:59,36 and a shack at 75,47:59,47 straddle the railway.
I guess that they don't help the traffic...

[Mabroc]

I always found it funny that P-51, P-40, Bf-109 got damaged engines with overheat and loss of power when hit or instantly died with a good burst of fire but the P-39's have no noticeable loss of power and usually can fly 10+ minutes at full combat capability smoking a lot.
Even when they have almost the same engine and amount of oil than a P-51 and P-40, lots of oil tubes around the engine that you easily perforate meanwhile doing other damage to the engine from a 6 o clock firing position.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Mabroc

I always found it funny that P-51, P-40, Bf-109 got damaged engines with overheat and loss of power when hit or instantly died with a good burst of fire but the P-39's have no noticeable loss of power and usually can fly 10+ minutes at full combat capability smoking a lot.

This does seem strange, since one of the reasons that pilots disliked the P-39 was the fact that the engine's position made it more vulnerable to engine damage in combat.

Given that a particular model of engine had the same cooling and oil cooling needs regardless of which plane it was mounted in, it would make sense to just have overheat and engine damage models standardized around a particular engine rather than a particular plane.

Maybe not for inline engines where the plumbing and armor could vary, but certainly for radial engines.

[Mabroc]

Well, since the first IL-2 game the P-39's and then the P-63 enjoyed the russian "enhanced" engine survivability capable of still giving full power while heavily smoking. I have been flying this sim online for years and the russians planes seem to have less HIGHLANDER engines now but the P-39 still can fight you in a bf-109k4 at 5000m meanwhile smoking for a long time, and not on the defensive precisely.

[THOMO]

I Installed 4.12.2 today then I started it. all went normally until I chared my finnish campaign: the screen was completly filled with the presentation bar and no way to go out of that!!! it was running smoothly until then.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by IceFire

There are a lot of problems with the 3D model for the P-40E and M... both are getting a make over for a future patch. Totally new 3D mesh and damage model systems... I don't know for a fact but I would make a guess that this may help with the poor damage modeling.

I hope that the review will extend to the the Hawk 81/Kittyhawk/P-40A-C series, since they also suffer from the "one hit engine kill" problem.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

I hope that the review will extend to the the Hawk 81/Kittyhawk/P-40A-C series, since they also suffer from the "one hit engine kill" problem.

Different model. I'm not sure... those are more accurate from a visual 3D standpoint at least.