Torpedoing moving ships

[Asheshouse]

Originally Posted by Luno13

You can't do this in Il-2 as you can't progressively damage ships (they are fine until they suddenly sink) and you can't damage sub-systems like gun placements.

Not true. Every gun mount has a dedicated "collision box" and damage model. Every gun can be individually destroyed. The "hardness" of the turret also varies, so enclosed turrets are harder to destroy than open mounts. The models have been like this since the early days.

Ashe

[RPS69]

Originally Posted by Asheshouse

Not true. Every gun mount has a dedicated "collision box" and damage model. Every gun can be individually destroyed. The "hardness" of the turret also varies, so enclosed turrets are harder to destroy than open mounts. The models have been like this since the early days.

Ashe

The only way I know to hit a turret on a ship, was by the after implementations of Lal's Rhone mods. Original IL2 behaviour was that the ship sinks first from whatever damage, than having a broken turret.

[Asheshouse]

I can only speak from experience of having created one or two ship models and having examined a few of the older models in the game, KGV. Illustrious, Tirpitz, Lexington and others. The behaviour is not dependant on any mods, though modding can affect the degree of visible list etc when the ship is damaged.

All of the turrets and open gun mounts on these ships can be individually destroyed. If destroyed you will see the visual model of the mount change and may see fire and smoke and of course the gun will stop firing.

This may not apply to a few of the earliest ship models produced (ShipGeneric classification) but does apply to all of the larger models which come under the BigshipGeneric classification.

What you will not get is any progressive slowing of the ship speed etc. although you may see some listing when hull sections begin to take damage. The ship will not sink until the hull sections are sufficiently damaged.

The damage model for the hull is pretty basic, comprising just three large sections, so the ability to hit critical locations like boiler rooms or magasines does not exist and armour belts are not simulated in any realistic way. Hull boxes are assumed to have similar armour strength on all faces, but after all, this is an aircraft sim.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by Asheshouse

The damage model for the hull is pretty basic, comprising just three large sections, so the ability to hit critical locations like boiler rooms or magasines does not exist and armour belts are not simulated in any realistic way. Hull boxes are assumed to have similar armour strength on all faces, but after all, this is an aircraft sim.

Are all the hull boxes in one ship of the same durability? Doesen't seem like they are (Hit a destroyer with 1000 lbs aft or very far forward -gone. Hit in between-alive).
If the damage model of ships can't be improved without major reworking, then at least some randomness should be applied to it. So it will occur then and now that thousand pounds of bombs don't sink a destroyer and 500 pounds sink it sometimes - and maybe even less (100 lbs sunk Kisaragi).

Some chance of a fire breaking out by a bomb hit could also improve the damage model, that fire could spread to the next compartment - or crew effort could contain it. Would only need some number shuffling in the background, no rework of hit boxes or such. Especially aboard carriers fires were a really dangerous thing, and Princeton was lost to a single 500 kg bomb hit and Akagi to a 1000lbs hit (though it is likely that one other near misses made things substantially worse) as the resulting fires spread uncontrollably and in the end touched of the magazines.

[Woke Up Dead]

How do you estimate a ship's speed?

[Aracno]

Originally Posted by Woke Up Dead

How do you estimate a ship's speed?

Done by 22GCT_Perru for a SEOW campaign.

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by Aracno

Done by 22GCT_Perru for a SEOW campaign.

Very useful

[Woke Up Dead]

Originally Posted by Aracno

Done by 22GCT_Perru for a SEOW campaign.

That's it! Thank you!

[RPS69]

but after all, this is an aircraft sim.

I can't disagree more with this comment. This is not a flight sim. This is a ground attack flight sim. Hence it's name... Il2 Sturmovick.
It is aboslutely reasonable to ask for better behaviour from your main targets. Dogfighting is just a by product. And the fly simulator term is absolutely diminishing.
And I may also say thanks for your work on several ships, but the implemebtation made in the original code, implied that destructing a turret was much more difficult than sinking the ship itself. After mods, the punishment needed to see this happen was made somewhat more proportional. In the original game that was out of the question. Good that they asked you to make them anyway. Don't know how it is working now with TD job. I will give it a look later.

[Plane-Eater]

Originally Posted by RPS69

I can't disagree more with this comment. This is not a flight sim. This is a ground attack flight sim. Hence it's name... Il2 Sturmovick.
It is aboslutely reasonable to ask for better behaviour from your main targets. Dogfighting is just a by product. And the fly simulator term is absolutely diminishing.
And I may also say thanks for your work on several ships, but the implemebtation made in the original code, implied that destructing a turret was much more difficult than sinking the ship itself. After mods, the punishment needed to see this happen was made somewhat more proportional. In the original game that was out of the question. Good that they asked you to make them anyway. Don't know how it is working now with TD job. I will give it a look later.

Well, in fairness, there are 200+ aircraft in this IL-2 Sturmovik sim, and they're not all Sturmoviks.

On the flip side, though, a huge chunk of this sim was focused on the Pacific Theater, and that part of the war made air warfare and ship warfare inseparable from each other. I've wanted more detailed ships, ship damage and AI for a long time so we could properly do PTO campaigns with battle groups that show battle damage during missions and throughout campaigns and react like real surface combatants.