Leading Edge Slats on the Me-109

[Crumpp]

the gun ports
covered

That is the key condition in the NACA report, btw.

Uncover the gun ports and the NACA found the same stall characteristics as noted in all the early mark Spitfires Operating Notes.

So, does the game model a Spitfire without weapons available or one that is fighting??

[Crumpp]

Even in a very tight turn the stall was quite gentle, with no tendency for the aircraft to suddenly flick over on to its back and spin.

[Crumpp]

Now if as you suggest that during a power off stall the elevator has become completely ineffective how exactly is the pilot expected to use such purposeful and smooth recovery inputs?

Taildraggernut, why don't you squash all your theories with some experience? Get in an airplane and try to raise the nose at the stall to see what happens. Make sure you have plenty of altitude and an instructor with you. Don't want to see you get hurt.

Read the RAE report too. Look for the words "Stick back to the stops".

In otherwords, the stick was all the way back at the stall point in the Bf-109 by design.

That is normal for many properly designed aircraft.

[taildraggernut]

In otherwords, the stick was all the way back at the stall point in the Bf-109 by design.

Now think very very carefully what you have said here.......take your time, you may eventually understand that if you really had to deflect elevator fully to the stop in a high speed stall then you are probably flying an aircraft with elevator controls the size of trim tabs.....is it sinking in yet?

Taildraggernut, why don't you squash all your theories with some experience? Get in an airplane and try to raise the nose at the stall to see what happens. Make sure you have plenty of altitude and an instructor with you. Don't want to see you get hurt.

I really wouldn't be saying any of this stuff unless I had the experience, anyway this constant questioning of actual real life experiences is completely redundant, I don't know who you are or what you are boy/girl/slimy green tentacled monster or actually a real flying instructor.
all I can say for sure is the stuff you are pumping out on here is absolute garbage, i just can't figure out why someone would do that.

[Crumpp]

Taildraggernut,

It will be more useful for you to seperate pre-stall behaviors from stall behaviors. You keep confusing and blending the two. They are very different conditions of flight.

Taildraggernut says:
How can it be?

In the Bf-109, the main wing is stalled when the wing drops. The slats remain effective preventing spin entry and the aircraft experiences loss of elevator control to raise the nose further. That loss of elevator control prevents the pilot from increasing angle of attack beyond the stall point of the slatted portion of the airfoil.

When the slots were fully open the aircraft could be turned quite steadily until very near the stall. If the stick was then pulled back a little more the aircraft suddenly shuddered, and either tended to come out of the turn or dropped its wing further, oscillating meanwhile in pitch and roll and rapidly losing height ; the aircraft immediately unstalled if the stick was eased forward. Even in a very tight turn the stall was quite gentle, with no tendency for the aircraft to suddenly flick over on to its back and spin.

The RAE is not discussing pre-stall behavior, they are talking about the accelerated STALL of the aircraft:

Even in a very tight turn the stall was quite gentle, with no tendency for the aircraft to suddenly flick over on to its back and spin.

[taildraggernut]

No, the wing drops when one of the outboard sections of the wing stalls, this can only happen if the slot had run out of puff and stalled itself.

now about that loss of elevator control, what causes it?

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

So, does the game model a Spitfire without weapons available or one that is fighting??

When you take off in this game, your Spitfire's gun ports are indeed covered.

Now when you know the wing and slats of V2 were the same, would you care to comment on the spin test report I quoted a couple of pages back?

I agree the stall characteristics of the 109 in game are incorrect but I believe you're equally wrong with you claims about 'non-spinnable design' and 'devices'.

[robtek]

You can even get a C152 to spin, but you have to work for it, same with the 109, it seems, you can get it to spin, if you work at it, but it is very difficult to get the spin without forcing the plane to spin.
That is how i read it.

[taildraggernut]

Originally Posted by robtek

You can even get a C152 to spin, but you have to work for it, same with the 109, it seems, you can get it to spin, if you work at it, but it is very difficult to get the spin without forcing the plane to spin.
That is how i read it.

Not quite, what it really means is the 109's behaviour in the stall is relatively forgiving and gives ample opportunity to recover before things get too far out of shape, the fact remains that slats simply delay onset of a stall and not prevent it completely, if you keep pulling back on the stick after the slats have become ineffective then you increase your chances of entering a spin, the severity of which is subjet to debate but likely to be quite easy to deal with, the key point is once you have been forced into recovery technique during a combat turn you have effectively left the engagement and you are vulnerable.

[robtek]

Originally Posted by taildraggernut

Not quite, what it really means is the 109's behaviour in the stall is relatively forgiving and gives ample opportunity to recover before things get too far out of shape, the fact remains that slats simply delay onset of a stall and not prevent it completely, if you keep pulling back on the stick after the slats have become ineffective then you increase your chances of entering a spin, the severity of which is subjet to debate but likely to be quite easy to deal with, the key point is once you have been forced into recovery technique during a combat turn you have effectively left the engagement and you are vulnerable.

If you reduce it to that, the key point is that the 109 is controlable all the time, even in a high speed stall, and its adversaries aren't, which is a great achievement by itself and should be represented in game.