Wondering about a few rune magic spells

[camelotcrusade]

Lots of good ideas for timelessness, just remember you have to spend a rune to activate it (and I forget what kind that is). So maybe that is a potential use for justice or magic rune.

Still haven't seen any convincing uses for Negation - which also requires spending a rune, so I gather you can't use it on enemies (I haven't scribed it yet to see).

[Loopy]

Keep in mind that Timeless itself scales with creation and intellect. I get +8 turns from it with 40 intellect and creation 3. If it weren't for the fact that Rune Mages exist Creation and Timeless would be competing for the Most OP award. Just spam buffs and make them last forever. Runic Word is more than powerful enough to utilize Timeless indefinitely, even without Higher Magic you'll be able to use Timeless for 3 rounds before needing to use Runic word once.

Stone Skin + Divine Armor + Avenging Angel on any unit and you can just wait around while enemies kill themselves. Who needs to attack? . Keeping Avenging Angel/Mana Spring up 100% of the time isn't too hard once you have a strong enough Timeless unless you are against 10 ranged stacks or something (in which case, go ahead and attack ). Only downside is that stuff like Burning and Poison get buffed by Timeless as well. Hey, this is where Negation can be useful I suppose... Not that you really need it, but might as well cast it.

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by Loopy

Keep in mind that Timeless itself scales with creation and intellect. I get +8 turns from it with 40 intellect and creation 3. If it weren't for the fact that Rune Mages exist Creation and Timeless would be competing for the Most OP award. Just spam buffs and make them last forever. Runic Word is more than powerful enough to utilize Timeless indefinitely, even without Higher Magic you'll be able to use Timeless for 3 rounds before needing to use Runic word once.

Stone Skin + Divine Armor + Avenging Angel on any unit and you can just wait around while enemies kill themselves. Who needs to attack? . Keeping Avenging Angel/Mana Spring up 100% of the time isn't too hard once you have a strong enough Timeless unless you are against 10 ranged stacks or something (in which case, go ahead and attack ). Only downside is that stuff like Burning and Poison get buffed by Timeless as well. Hey, this is where Negation can be useful I suppose... Not that you really need it, but might as well cast it.

How do Avenging Angel/mana spring/last hero work with timeless? Do they simply not tick down at all while it is on, but still give mana/damage/reduction?

Timelss very much looks like an incredible Mage spell for single stack fights. Get your defensive buffs out fast, then timeless them so they last forever.

[Loopy]

They tick down as normal due to both turns going by and being attacked. Timeless simply adds to their duration. The unit status screen shows a max of 9 rounds duration for an effect but it can definitely be much, much longer than that.

Last Hero would be hilarious if it went off after 100 turns of soaking up damage . It's not really needed though since you can already maintain Stone Skin and Divine Armor. Using Avenging Angel is just for showing off though, attack buffs that can easily be pushed to last forever and not require constant Timeless to maintain are better.

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by Loopy

They tick down as normal due to both turns going by and being attacked. Timeless simply adds to their duration. The unit status screen shows a max of 9 rounds duration for an effect but it can definitely be much, much longer than that.

Last Hero would be hilarious if it went off after 100 turns of soaking up damage . It's not really needed though since you can already maintain Stone Skin and Divine Armor. Using Avenging Angel is just for showing off though, attack buffs that can easily be pushed to last forever and not require constant Timeless to maintain are better.

Oh really? I have theorized muchly about Timeless, but never used it. I thought it added a buff, and while the buff was in effect, nothing else ticked down.

If it just adds to the duration. Hmm. Still good, though not quite as strong as I surmised.

[Loopy]

Yeah, I'm not sure if it's a bug or a translation issue. But for things other than Avenging/Last/Mana it's better because you can cast it multiple times to stack it. 1 cast is enough to make any of them last longer than most battles I fight take, and 2 casts should be enough for anything.

[Xargon]

Originally Posted by Loopy

Keep in mind that Timeless itself scales with creation and intellect. I get +8 turns from it with 40 intellect and creation 3. If it weren't for the fact that Rune Mages exist Creation and Timeless would be competing for the Most OP award. Just spam buffs and make them last forever. Runic Word is more than powerful enough to utilize Timeless indefinitely, even without Higher Magic you'll be able to use Timeless for 3 rounds before needing to use Runic word once.

Stone Skin + Divine Armor + Avenging Angel on any unit and you can just wait around while enemies kill themselves. Who needs to attack? . Keeping Avenging Angel/Mana Spring up 100% of the time isn't too hard once you have a strong enough Timeless unless you are against 10 ranged stacks or something (in which case, go ahead and attack ). Only downside is that stuff like Burning and Poison get buffed by Timeless as well. Hey, this is where Negation can be useful I suppose... Not that you really need it, but might as well cast it.

I agree that for a mage, creation is the best thing since sliced bread (of which there is far too little in KB). But even though I absolutely love it, it should probably be toned down a bit. 30% increase in power for most buffs/debuffs, summon effects (even from creatures) and maybe something else I forgot PLUS increase of every duration by two (even the short-lived buffs) is a damn big bonus.

Oh, and for the timeless combo, you could slap a target on the unit as well, especially if the enemy has ranged units. I don't understand the use of negation in this situation, though: it would tick down burning and poison to 1, but all the buffs as well, right? Wouldn't a dispel lvl3 be more appropriate?

[Colbert30]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

Oh really? I have theorized muchly about Timeless, but never used it. I thought it added a buff, and while the buff was in effect, nothing else ticked down.

If it just adds to the duration. Hmm. Still good, though not quite as strong as I surmised.

I haven't had the chance to use that spell yet. But if it's not a buff, then it only extends the duration of buffs already present on the unit, right?. Not of those applied after the cast of Timeless.

[Loopy]

Originally Posted by Xargon

Oh, and for the timeless combo, you could slap a target on the unit as well, especially if the enemy has ranged units. I don't understand the use of negation in this situation, though: it would tick down burning and poison to 1, but all the buffs as well, right? Wouldn't a dispel lvl3 be more appropriate?

Yes, Target is one of the things this can be overly abused with. Though I was specifically talking about a one-stack game before, where you wouldn't even need it.

Does negation affect buffs as well? If so then I guess it's useless. Haven't used it myself.

[Xargon]

Ok, at the moment, timeless does not work properly, as was already noted in the bugs thread (but I did not read it...).
It adds a new buff (timeless) to the unit, and every other effect gets the duration of that buff added to its own duration. This fits the description exactly, and the only case that might be unclear are magic spring and similar effects - those still tick down when attacked and can end before timeless does. The problem is that while the unit info shows the extended duration, at least some of the buffs cease giving the corresponding bonus after their original duration. This is definitely the case with divine armor (it's still shown in the unit screen, but the unit does not actually gain the resistances) and may be true for others as well.

Does anyone have experience with this? When I get the time (I am currently timeless), I'll check other spells and maybe have a quick look at the files to see if there is an obvious reason.