The so called "no-loss" concept (whole game) is wrong and stupid.

[amyndris]

Originally Posted by BB Shockwave

You think HOMMIII was unbalanced, too? I remember playing no-loss campaigns myself back in the nineties - using Blind, Slow, or Resurrect. Heck, one campaign in Armageddon's Blade pits you against a throng of Nagas that you can only defeat by cleverly manipulating them with spells like Blind, Slow or Berserk so that they never reach your units. The battle is practically designed this way. It is not a loophole, or not unbalancing

Heh, I just played this level 2 weeks ago (I was marathoning through all the old HoMM...finished 1, 2+PoL, 3 and am on AB) and due to level layout, I managed to beat it by bouncing them between two chokepoints using Force Field

It was something like 7 stacks for 500 Naga Queens.

[tiberiu]

Originally Posted by BB Shockwave

Yeah, you are SOOOO not insulting anyone there... Seriously, if you are as old as you say you are (for the record, I am 34) and have been around the internet, you should have heard about a little thing called "Netiquette". Basically, if you post anything in such an insulting manner - even if what you say is right, and you meant well - you will be labelled as a troll, because this is exactly what trolls do - creating topics with the intent of drawing people into prolonged, often personal arguments that actually are far-far removed from the original topic. And frankly, your later comments indicate just that - you are going out of your way to simply say "No, I didn't!" to anyone who practically quotes what you said. This looking more and more like the famous "Argument" from Monty Python...

How can I insult a CONCEPT, son? I didn't say "everybody who does no-loss is stupid". I EVEN said black on white that it's logical and natural for the player to try and to want to do no loss.

Who is the troll here? Go get your glasses.

clever ways

LOL. If you think killing legions of bear with 1 assassin is clever and that casting mana accelerator+phantom inquisitor obsessively it means you just have a very poor definition for the word "clever".

You think HOMMIII was unbalanced, too?

Yes, and, just as a random fact, most people I know of play with custom rules. Even championships are played with custom rules by people because the game is broken. (Necropolis skeletons overpowerd, Diplomacy hero vs No diplomacy hero =gg, and these are just 2 examples out of dozens)
Heroes 4 was probably the most worthy attempt to make the game balanced and fair. Heroes 5 fixed necromancy but made it possible to beat 100.000 pheonix (lvl7) with only 2 vampires.

I am growing tired of having to explain myself to people in dire need of both logic and strategy courses. The fact remains that Kings Bounty (fun as it is, overall) remains a game that presents no challange whatsoever to expert strategy players. As soon as you put your hands on overpowered spells and units, the game is over. What is the point of playing the game thereafter? To see the SCORE? To see a number on the screen? In a game that is single-player? I find it interesting to analyse scores at the end of online Warcraft 3 games, but in singleplayer not so much.

[Fatt_Shade]

How can I insult a CONCEPT, son?

Go get your glasses.

Again you with calling other people `son` , and accusing all on this tread for bad eyesight. Is there anything we should know about you tiberiu? Like is your father calling you daughter all the time, or you wear jar type of glasses and half blind as bat?

And you DONT have problem with players doing no loss, but call them all stupid and retarded , then accept custom rules for championships but NO for personal play at home. Then asking why is no loss even choice of some players, it just IS. Some ppl get game and right from start google cheats for it, here players invest time to go thru game to see what it offers not for number on screen. As for your Warcraft3 online games i bet you`re real pleasure to play with that personality.

[Pip-Boy]

Guys I don't know why you're still answering to the posts of tiberiu, I just kept reading until I couldn't bear myself to keep reading "son", I won't start a discussion with him/her probably because it would be a waste of both of our times and because nothing that we write is going to change his/her mind.What else can you expect from someone who says that hates noobs and that pro-players like him/her are the ones who make games evolve? Other than that I suggest that some moderator closes this thread.

[Saridu]

I think the thread is still open because a lot of people have opinions regarding the topic.

Tiberiu has been already warned about his offensive and belittling remarks but apparently has taken no heed of Elwin's warning.

Now back to the subject, I have no problem with how anybody else plays the game, its a single player game you can do whatever you want! Some open up the console as soon a the game loads, some spend hours nay days striving for no loss, some love the challenge of hard others prefer easy, that's fine.

I am a little annoyed that the game appears to have been designed to thwart "no loss" as much as possible, its like the devs opened the forums saw all the no loss threads and thought zomg! That's what everybody plays, lets make it as painful as possible! Warrior enemy hero? Who cares, give him poison skull, flame arrow and spectral sword just to kill a low hp unit and force the "no loss" player to reload.

Lets make the first two islands as linear as possible and force navigation scrolls behind quest gates so players can't go exploring and return with a big army. So we gave them the flying horse, that will keep them happy, it doesn't really mean much because they can't get any better units because we populated the islands with as much low hp crap as we can!

That's my gripe, no loss playing style seems to have affected game design. Now I think the other mechanics are really good, classes are better balanced, they tried to capture the nordic setting units are interesting. My problem is the way they are presented.

[blacklegionary]

Originally Posted by Saridu

I think the thread is still open because a lot of people have opinions regarding the topic.

Tiberiu has been already warned about his offensive and belittling remarks but apparently has taken no heed of Elwin's warning.

Now back to the subject, I have no problem with how anybody else plays the game, its a single player game you can do whatever you want! Some open up the console as soon a the game loads, some spend hours nay days striving for no loss, some love the challenge of hard others prefer easy, that's fine.

I am a little annoyed that the game appears to have been designed to thwart "no loss" as much as possible, its like the devs opened the forums saw all the no loss threads and thought zomg! That's what everybody plays, lets make it as painful as possible! Warrior enemy hero? Who cares, give him poison skull, flame arrow and spectral sword just to kill a low hp unit and force the "no loss" player to reload.

Lets make the first two islands as linear as possible and force navigation scrolls behind quest gates so players can't go exploring and return with a big army. So we gave them the flying horse, that will keep them happy, it doesn't really mean much because they can't get any better units because we populated the islands with as much low hp crap as we can!

That's my gripe, no loss playing style seems to have affected game design. Now I think the other mechanics are really good, classes are better balanced, they tried to capture the nordic setting units are interesting. My problem is the way they are presented.

Yeah, my opinion is the same. I don't care if ppl play no loss or not but it's a bad thing if it makes the game become boring.

Compare to previous game, WOTN have much better class balance, and all race get exciting new abilities. The game could be much more fun if the unit distribution is better. In AP we can already see they tried to make "no loss" harder but it's nowhere nearly as bad.

I have finished one playthrough and in the entire game I dont have enough Warrior Maiden to fill my Warrior leadership (I dont care much about other level 4 troop except Viking and Human, but they seem to be very low in number, too). Luckily we will still get a crapload of human troop (Knight, Horseman, Paladin, ArchMage, Rune mage) and they will make up a huge part of your army like the previous game KB:AP despite this game has a Viking theme. Also at late game you will still see a crapload of gray wolf, Hyena, Slinger and all other type of low HP troops. Those with high hp avaiable relatively few in number and sometimes not enough to fill your leadership even if you don't lose any.

Also those Rage skills that are useful at late game avaiable very late, making it's very hard to level them up.

[tiberiu]

Originally Posted by Pip-Boy

Guys I don't know why you're still answering to the posts of tiberiu,

I don't know why YOU took the time, and freely chose to answer to the topic I created. You want this thread closed? Whatever dude, I was just expressing my opinion. I believe in freedom of speech and opinion and dispise censorship.
I offered arguments and received massive flames in return.
"Son" is not an insult, lol. We the elderly sometimes address the youth this way, in a friendly manner. It is not mean to demean or to disconsider somebody.

If you don't like my posts, go set me on your ignore list. I have discovered my ignore list and started to add people there. It's a very useful tool, a powerful weapon that simple users can use to defend from evil people.

[Fatt_Shade]

@tiberiu
Thx for proving me and everyone else here right :
1) all here see that you insulted no loss players, but you still claim you didnt. WRONG
2)

I offered arguments and received massive flames in return.

You didnt offer arguments, only your observations, but without any suggestion how to fix `problem` as you call no loss play.
3)

If you don't like my posts, go set me on your ignore list. I have discovered my ignore list and started to add people there. It's a very useful tool, a powerful weapon that simple users can use to defend from evil people.

You want freedom of speech, but deny other players same right, yea this is so american. Any1 not agreeing with you is anarchist and attacking your freedoms, and any1 who agrees with you `here is some candy go play in sandbox and let grownups talk`.
90% posts here about everyones thought on no loss play, and you call them all `evil people`, and add to ignore list. That`s just pathetic.
4) And great way to wuss out, you call me liar and never answer where you got that idea or any proof for it. Then `ill ignore you, stop interacting with me` , what a load of crap. Come on give some fact for your accusations.
It`s not same as playing chessmaster, here your verbal opponents have thoughts of their own and it seems this unhinged your plan of trolling whole forum without getting response from other users.

And as for your wish to never interact with you again dont worry i wont because you have absolutely nothing to contribute to this game, or anything else for that matter.

[Razorflame]

amen to that fatt_shade

kinda funny though

u, me, technophobia and IIRC ggdrobrev all tried

but all failed to get him to reason

I remember u guys from the KB:Ap forum and TL where we challenged to do it fastest way to beat the game

i only mis loreanangelicus

[themaster]

Originally Posted by tiberiu

I was discussing the quality of the product, not it's selling potential. I never suggested that they would make more money if they made the changes to make the game harder so his point is moot. I expressed my opinion that the game is way too easy and my hopes that this might change.

in my experience.. the game only being a few days installed.. it's not that easy.. them making you "use" the viking units

When I found crossworlds too easy.. I used a mod to harden it up.. but point of fact I just couldn't find "the mod" fun when I tried it last.. so I left it..

Because the 1st island was so hard to do "no loss" (WOTN) I lost like 5-20 troops just to get off the island.. if I spent a LONG, LONG time leveling up.. I might have left the first island with no loss.. I just decided it wasn't worth it.. and lost a few troops.. other then that I've been taking no loss wins on every other island.. but there NOT easy in the slightest.. I'm afraid this chess player so far differs in your opinion..

So far I'm enjoying Warriors of the North.. sorry, you can't do the same

When games have let me down strategy/challenge wise.. after some time I have used MODS to make them funner/more difficult/challenging to play.. one reason why my modding of "crossworlds" may not have been effective is because I needed to let it "sit" for a while and for the energy to be right..

As I recall in kings bounty.. the hardest game was being a "mage" so they say.. that's the game I'm playing now with WOTN so you might double-check if your doing the mage thing too