Beating a dead horse

[Golf Pro]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

I guess the lack of information on development could be relate to the way UBI soft has been shafted by its "Fans".

I was astounded by the level of piracy in other titles. I read an article about Assassins Creed. (http://www.atomicmpc.com.au/article.asp?CIID=119232). Apparently the PC version only sold 40,000 copies but a buggy 'leaked' was downloaded 700,000 times!!!!!!

I bought a copy of that game and am still playing my way through. Compared with the XBox version, the PC has a huge improvement in graphics.

Basically with statistics like that it's a miracle that PC versions of software can still be created. I know If I was UBISoft i'ld tell the lot of us PC gamers to get shafted and go for the big $$$ on the console games, or make us pay for hardware 'keys' and online verifcation every time we play! How about charging us a monthly fee like world of warcraft????

Yeah, but on the other hand, I would have been perfectly happy to pay for a lot more IL-2 add-ons, especially if they featured new theatres (med, BOB etc.), and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I think there was a lot more money-making potential in IL-2 than was ever exploited. Really, I think 1c probably only did a quarter of what Il-2 was capable of. And now it's all going to be done over at AAA without Ubi getting a penny.

[ElAurens]

One little problem with your theory Golf Pro. The IL2 game engine is outdated. No matter how good (or sometimes how bad) the stuff from the modders is, it will pale when compared to the new engine.

These was no reason on earth for Maddox Games to continue development of any updates using the old game engine.

Once SOW is revealed in it's entirety IL2 will look pretty darn dated, because it is.

[Golf Pro]

Outdated compared to what, exactly? Whether it is "current" or "outdated" is in your (or my) head. If people are prepared to pay money for it, it isn't outdated, no matter when it was originally coded.

The reasons for MG to continue to develop the old engine was to make money. I suspect, however, that Oleg is more of an aeronautical physicist than businessman, and there was no fun left in the old engine for him to do his tweaking - that's why the engine has been declared "outdated", and a new one declared necessary.

I hope SoW gets finished, and I hope it does make Il-2 pale. But that doesn't mean that Il-2 was stretched to its greatest commercial or technical limits. Because it simply wasn't.

[jermin]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

One little problem with your theory Golf Pro. The IL2 game engine is outdated. No matter how good (or sometimes how bad) the stuff from the modders is, it will pale when compared to the new engine.

These was no reason on earth for Maddox Games to continue development of any updates using the old game engine.

Once SOW is revealed in it's entirety IL2 will look pretty darn dated, because it is.

IIRC, KoTS and BOP are both developed from the "outdated" IL2 engine. But those games are no where near the outdated. Go play with some MODs, you'll find IL2 has a huge potential. Take the cloud size mod for example, the size of clouds is only controled by a number in a text file. It won't take much time to change it. But it improves the immersion dramatically. The texture of maps is also controled by one small text file. Just replacing some variables may bring us to a brand-new world. I can't say the new IL2 will outperform BoB. But I'm sure it is good enough to make a great deal of money in a very short time.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by jermin

IIRC, KoTS and BOP are both developed from the "outdated" IL2 engine. But those games are no where near the outdated. Go play with some MODs, you'll find IL2 has a huge potential. Take the cloud size mod for example, the size of clouds is only controled by a number in a text file. It won't take much time to change it. But it improves the immersion dramatically. The texture of maps is also controled by one small text file. Just replacing some variables may bring us to a brand-new world. I can't say the new IL2 will outperform BoB. But I'm sure it is good enough to make a great deal of money in a very short time.

KOTS dropped the IL-2 engine and are developing their own more advanced engine. Apparently BOP only used some of the IL-2 FM and also use their own engine. I don't know what IIRC is, but since you got the rest wrong, I doubt it uses the IL-2 engine either.

[Robert]

IIRC = If I Remember Correctly.


As far as 1C selling add ons. While it sounds good I think it is a limited appeal. The only folks that would buy the add ons would be folks who already have IL2. I can imagine the confusion on forums from newbies asking if they bought the correct add on, or which version of IL2 they need. We've all seen that, and it's inordinately frustrating for the newb to find out he bought IL2 FB/PF, but doesn't have AEP. So now he can't upgrade at all. Can you imagine the confusion with all the different versions availible now being even further muddied with addons? I doubt the effort would be as sucessful as hoped. (I'd love to be wrong)

Say he went 3rd party on us to make more money, and thus spend more time and capital on BoB. Would he release the FMs he's working of for BoB? Remember we've been 'experimenting with BoB FMs' since patch 4.01. Sure there are nondisclosure clauses, but we've all seen leaked patches. I doubt it would be different for FMs. I have no doubt that were Oleg to have done this the chances of the FMs being illegally disseminated would have been high. Even if it's a small risk it wouldn't be worth it.

As much chagrin I have toward the hack I think it's the only path open for 'continued developement' to IL2.

[jermin]

Originally Posted by Chivas

KOTS dropped the IL-2 engine and are developing their own more advanced engine. Apparently BOP only used some of the IL-2 FM and also use their own engine. I don't know what IIRC is, but since you got the rest wrong, I doubt it uses the IL-2 engine either.

As for the KOTS, my source is they updated the il2 engine, instead of building a new one from scratch. The following words are form Anton Yudintsev, the head of Gaijin Entertainment, developer of "IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey":

"What we've asked for (and what we recieved) was the source code of Il-2 (flight model and AI)."

FM and AI may seem like small parts of a flight sim engine at a glance. But they takes far more time and human power to biuild than all the other parts because they are the core technology of a flight sim. Without them, IL2 wouldn't have been so popular even if it had ground-breaking graphics at that time. And you can't deny the FM of IL2 was the best among all the flight sim in the market.

[crazyivan1970]

@jermin

KOTS is on the different engine... they didnt use IL2 engine
BOP is console game, it does not require all the bells and whisles of flight sim, even tho it comes very close to flight simulation in many areas, based on what i read.

[Chivas]

From Anton

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingbullseye
Been trolling awhile and finally had to register. Still having a hard time believing that its the IL2 engine because wow absolutely stunning! Great job there devs.

Guys, once again, it is NOT IL-2 engine. It is our own Dagor Engine 3.0 (next-gen edition).

You may be right about the AI jermin, but I just remember him saying he only used parts of the FM.

[proton45]

Originally Posted by jermin

As for the KOTS, my source is they updated the il2 engine, instead of building a new one from scratch. The following words are form Anton Yudintsev, the head of Gaijin Entertainment, developer of "IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey":

"What we've asked for (and what we recieved) was the source code of Il-2 (flight model and AI)."

FM and AI may seem like small parts of a flight sim engine at a glance. But they takes far more time and human power to biuild than all the other parts because they are the core technology of a flight sim. Without them, IL2 wouldn't have been so popular even if it had ground-breaking graphics at that time. And you can't deny the FM of IL2 was the best among all the flight sim in the market.

Sometimes I feel like I'm in the "Twilight Zone"... It seems like just yesterday (like before the mods came out) that I was reading thread after thread about how "outdated" the "IL2 1946" FM & AI where...