Time now to let TD loose on CloD for bug fixing only! Not for new content? 1c listen?

[zander]

Originally Posted by Ailantd

You are wrong.
Sequel stand alone means that you will can buy only BoM and play only BoM. But if you already have CoD they will be merged. In other words: BoM will be not a DLC, but a stand alone expansion.

The way I understood it was:
BoM already contains Clod planes and maps off the shelf.

He said something about time capsule, ability to fly spits and e3 in BoM.

[NervousEnergy]

Originally Posted by Ailantd

You are wrong.
Sequel stand alone means that you will can buy only BoM and play only BoM. But if you already have CoD they will be merged. In other words: BoM will be not a DLC, but a stand alone expansion.

I'll have to go back and look, but I'm pretty sure Luthier said at one point that CloD assets would be included in the sequel. There would be no need to 'merge' the games since that would be redundant.

Though that also begs the question of why they so flatly state there will be no more patches for CloD. If the sequel will be an improved version of the codebase with more content assets, then why wouldn't they release incremental improvements to the engine as they're built, if only to test them? CloD's development has made it clear that 1C doesn't have a lot of in-house testing resources, which is understandable for a small dev.

Not that I'm upset about that. The sim runs great for me. I still play 1946 more just because that's where all the guys I fly with are (Spits vs 109's HSFX server), but Cliffs seems to run pretty sweet now. Just curious why they'd cut off all patches if the new engine is supposed to still be able to run the CloD assets.

[zapatista]

no hope in hell, and good thing to

you really think they are going to give away their source code to let a few amateurs tinker with it and waste the millions it took to get where we got to now

rather odd idea

[planespotter]

Originally Posted by zapatista

no hope in hell, and good thing to

you really think they are going to give away their source code to let a few amateurs tinker with it and waste the millions it took to get where we got to now

rather odd idea

TD already said on SimHQ 'not snowball chance in hell'.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by Mysticpuma

Right, we all know many of the bugs reported in the official (and unread) bug tracker have been left unfixed and now the final 1c patch has been released we are left in a position of limbo.
There are many fixes still to implemented and for some players these are crucial to allow them to at least enjoy their purchase and get it into a playable condition.

So may I humbly suggest that 1c allow TD the chance make CloD work as it actually should by letting them read the bugtracker and fix the most 'popular' bugs still present.

Now I appreciate that there would be concerns about new features and similar being added but that is not what I am suggesting.

As much as I would love new shipping, working weather, etc,etc this is not what I am suggesting.

Since 1c are now finished with clod, the features would stay the same BUT it must surely be possible to let TD fix the bugs that exist in the current software as they do appear to at least listen to the community and also care about the playability of the Sim?

I would only request that they be allowed to bug fix as I wouldn't like to think that they would be taken away for too long from their amazing work on 1946, but please at least consider that now CloD is Abandoned for development, it would be seen as a sign of future community relations to at least consider letting TD make the sim a final working package.

Appreciate thoughts on this from the community, TD and 1c.

Please give us hope of having the bugs that 1c have given up on spending time fixing could at least be fixed by your brilliant and talented TD guys.

Cheers, MP

Well - the reason TD "got" the code for 1946 was that that MG was done with it, they where not going to use that code any more. IF TD would get the current code for CloD we would never get any merged install (without losing the efforts of one team). After this latest patch we will get no more patches for CloD, but the same code base will continue to evolve when they work on the sequel - and when we "merge" the sequel with CloD we actually only get to use the old maps and aircraft with the latest iteration of the CloD core engine, with new features and GUI stuff etc...

So unless TD and MG would merge their branches of the core modules before the release of the sequel that would mean the end of a continuously evolving core game like we had in IL2-->1946. The basic core engine was the "same" all those years, they just kept upgrading it and released new versions as sequels by adding maps and planes etc, including the old ones in the "package".

So - no way I would like a TD developed evolution of CloD at the expense of having a core game that lives and evolves over 10 years if successful...

The day the CloD codebase dies I'm all in to "give" it to TD to get an extended life. I hope that MG has version 3 in the oven at that time too!

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Mysticpuma

So may I humbly suggest that 1c allow TD the chance make CloD work as it actually should by letting them read the bugtracker and fix the most 'popular' bugs still present.

That's very unlikely, I don't think that anybody in DT have such interest. I can only speak for myself and I can tell you that I will not work on anything CloD and its sequel related without the pay. So if somebody put the money on the table than why not, there are far worse jobs out there but for free no way.

Originally Posted by salmo

I would be rushing to get TD alone to monopolise potential future development. There are many talented individuals in the community that could improve COD given the chance.

Nobody stops them to contact Luthier and give him their proposition for future development of the CloD.

Originally Posted by zapatista

you really think they are going to give away their source code to let a few amateurs tinker with it and waste the millions it took to get where we got to now

rather odd idea

What's wrong with amateurs? Amateurs contributed a lot to mankind in many fields, especially programming. Kids from school are often doing amazing things.

And how would "amateurs" ruin the code with bugfixing, it is rather silly that you are afraid of 3rd party in game that was riddled with bugs from the get go. It would be more logical to be afraid of developers who released the game with so many bugs. Not that you have to be afraid of them but why you think that other developers would be worse?

BTW DT programmers have one form or another of formal education in programming so we qualify as amateurs only in terms of money reward for our work. OTOH our modelers have done payed work for Il2 and other flight sims so we are not amateurs in that area either.

Originally Posted by Red Dragon-DK

I hope Never to see DT in this sim. They have there own agenda and try to push all others away.

Of course that we have an agenda, we are an organized group. As for pushing others away, really, are you serious, who are that others anyway?

Originally Posted by Red Dragon-DK

Luther have already said, that more updates will come in the sequel. So there is no reson at all, to give DT access to fix bugs. A proposal that do not have its justified, in my believe.

If you gave DT access to CLOD as a stand alone Sim it would not merge with the sequel.

If we do it for free than it makes lot of sense to use us for bugfixing, they could benefit even if they pay us. I didn't see the CloD code but many of the reported bugs suggest that lot of the problems in CloD are transfered from Il2 to CloD, especially in FM and AI, our knowledge and experience could help them a lot to speed up the development in these areas.

In case of standalone sim that is not necessarily bad for 1C, game engines are sold or licensed under different terms on regular basis. I highly doubt that 1C would hesitate to sell game engine to anybody who offer them the right money. IMO their bigger problem is lack of potential buyers than anything else.

Originally Posted by BigC208

TD to the bug fixing rescue? I think the TD guys enjoy bringing in new content and effects, not so much fix bugs. Also giving TD acces to the source code is much too risky. It's Luthier's Golden Goose. Next thing you know it get's leaked and content/theatres that they wanted to make and sell themselves will be available for free.

Apart from adding new stuff to the Il2 we have fixed hundreds of bugs, but that don't gets as much public attention as new features and TBH we don't document every fix in readme.

Danger for code leaks is always present but you are right, more people involved bigger the danger.

Originally Posted by klem

I wouldn't want to see an independent third party given access to the CoD code. TD may have a good reputation in IL-2 '46 but that is only part of the story. The code is 'out there' and there are/were the Ultrapack mods, the HSFX mods and the AllAircraft guys mods before that. The online servers became a mess and the community fragmented.

Even if 1C were to use third party developers tied by their small tender parts to a nasty contract, the code would inevitably escape somehow.

Il2 code is out there because game was hacked, that can and probably will happen to CloD and it's sequels too but that doesn't have any similarity with licensing the game engine to other developers. It is interesting that you somehow think that code is safe in 1C hands and it will be compromised if it is sold to somebody else. Why, it is quite possible that other developers have better security system than Maddox games?

[BH_woodstock]

@FC99 and TD


Fix it, you know you want to.

do it.

[jermin]

If you are really in need of money. I'd suggest you build you own game instead of soliciting from the players of a game not developed by yourselves.

I won't deny that TD does have some skilled modelers/programmers. But in no way your work can be compared to the masterpieces of some much more talented modders. What's more, they are much more humble and amiable than you.

The newly introduced overheat model and FM/CEM changes in patch 4.11 have caused quite some dispute where TD was unwilling (or unable) to provide any references to back up those changes.

Ever since the release of 4.11, the number of online players has been stepping down steadily. Hyperlobby is now a ghost town. I logged on today at 5 AM UCT and was supprised to find there was only some 20 (No, this is not a typo) players in the game.

I chose to support TD because I prefered a managed sim with consistent quality. And I hoped they would do something to stop the rampant online cheats. But considering what they have done online community and that the only remaining anti-cheat mechanism CRT can now be easily bypassed, I think it is pointless to support them any more. Futhermore, modders provide real-life references for nearly every change they made to the game and are willing to listen to players' advice and complaints.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by jermin:
________________________
Why do some people tend to take it for granted that others have poorer knowledge background than them regarding what they are arguing about
while they actually don't have a clue about who they are arguing with in the first place?

So just don't argue.

[Stublerone]

Pls no TD support. As already said they have their own agenda and their own part of the com. The whole thing perhaps helped il2 to survive a little longer but the com was split in half since then. Even if you stick with the new things of td, some things went wrong recently. They haven't heard on some advices and even thrown out some important supporters with their programs. It messed up a bot and some are really unhappy about the last developments. Some are and some are not. It is not my way to evaluate anf I do not do it. I am just saying, that some recent developments and also the initial developments split the com.

Please never again! btw, the source code wasn't given to them. It was hacked and available for everyone.